I guess like many when Tamiya brought out their 1/48 bulldozer last year I thought great I can use it to build some of the crawlers I had always wanted to model over the years.
The problem area of tracks and side frames could be solved by using/modifying the kit parts and away we go. Bearing in mind I was mainly modelling in 1/24 I sure you will understand my disappointment when the kit arrived and I realised how small it was! Thus it was swiftly dispatched to the spares bin and there it languished until a meeting with Stuart, AKA Barney a few weeks ago.
Admiring his superb models I mentioned my stash of un-built Tamiya dozers and how far I had thrown them in disappointment, he then quietly informed me that the side frames were just about spot on dimensionally for the small Holt/Caterpillar crawlers in 1/35 scale, I know I can be a bit stupid at times but this just proved it, never even thought about that option.
So back home from our meeting, straight up to the loft to dig out the kits and the CD of photographs of Holt 2 ton crawlers, which Rick Marty kindly sent me last year Barney was spot on, dimensionally everything was great. However there were lots of significant differences which I will not bore you with and I was going to give up again when Barney reminded me we were not counting rivets and let's see what you can do with it.
So here it is a free-lance 1/35 2 ton crawler, 1920's vintage
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Just in case you are not aware of how small these crawlers were ,here is a real Caterpillar 2 tonner.
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I had made a promise to myself not to post anymore models here until they were painted but thought it might be useful to someone to see the model in the raw so that you can see what bits were used from the original kit.
It has proved to be a useful learning curve and has given me a handle on how to sort out the tracks, etc so hopefully I will have another go in the future to model a more accurate model of a Holt 2 tonner
Inspiration and a suburb bit of "Freelance Prototype" with artistic licence engineering
Did I read it wright PAINT & COMPLETION !!
Barney
Gordon ,
It's alright ( one grade higher than satisfactory) but I can't see any LEGO blocks , and you know that it can't be a proper scratchbuilt job unless you use at least one piece of LEGO .
Looking forward to seeing it finished and primed . I guess it would be too much to ask to see it completely finished and painted .
Nick
Quote from: shropshire lad on July 24, 2011, 10:21:53 AM
Gordon ,
It's alright ( one grade higher than satisfactory) but I can't see any LEGO blocks , and you know that it can't be a proper scratchbuilt job unless you use at least one piece of LEGO .
Nick
Very tempted to just lie and say there is a lego block in there but but I won't.
Quote from: shropshire lad on July 24, 2011, 10:21:53 AM
I guess it would be too much to ask to see it completely finished and painted .
Nick
There is a touch of the insult & sarcasm hidden in this comment, however there may well be an element of truth in there as well so this time I will forgive you
Quote from: gfadvance on July 24, 2011, 10:46:32 AM
Quote from: shropshire lad on July 24, 2011, 10:21:53 AM
Gordon ,
It's alright ( one grade higher than satisfactory) but I can't see any LEGO blocks , and you know that it can't be a proper scratchbuilt job unless you use at least one piece of LEGO .
Nick
Very tempted to just lie and say there is a lego block in there but but I won't.
Quote from: shropshire lad on July 24, 2011, 10:21:53 AM
I guess it would be too much to ask to see it completely finished and painted .
Nick
There is a touch of the insult & sarcasm hidden in this comment, however there may well be an element of truth in there as well so this time I will forgive you
Hidden ? I thought it very obvious !
I know how it is though , you get so far and are wary of finishing the model for fear of mucking it up . Go on , bite the bullet ,
Nick
Quote from: gfadvance on July 24, 2011, 01:48:46 AM
I had made a promise to myself not to post anymore models here until they were painted but thought it might be useful to someone to see the model in the raw so that you can see what bits were used from the original kit.
I vote in favor of construction shots! Of course, if you do bother to finish it, those photos might be nice too. ;)
Cheers,
Dallas
Very cool! Thanks for posting it.
Did you make resin castings for the track pieces, or build them all from styrene?
Send it to me....I'll paint it for you. ;D
M
Ray,
the track was sort of assembly line built from strip , rod, etc will dig out some photos and post tomorrow.
Marc,
if it wasn't for the "grin" and that you are "busy" to December I would be tempted to take you up on the offer ............ especially after the evening I have had with primer!
Nick,
go on bite the bullet ...........and muck it up
Gordon,
Very nice, I like it.
Did you get the lettering cast?
Rick
At first glance I pulled my kit out and started to pair it up with the plans I had. Then when I looked at yours I noticed that you removed the Tamiya treads and replaced them with? Can you tell us more of what you did to yours please?
Thanks
Gil
Quote from: Mr Potato Head on July 24, 2011, 07:15:28 PM
At first glance I pulled my kit out and started to pair it up with the plans I had. Then when I looked at yours I noticed that you removed the Tamiya treads and replaced them with? Can you tell us more of what you did to yours please?
Thanks
Gil
You have plans ? Please Post Details!!
I have never found any, made my own rough ones from a 2d card model and looking at lots of photos.
Will put together a few notes and photos of track construction later
Gordon, that is a nice looking model. I like the way you modified the tracks. Will there be some added detail to the dash? Add some kind of wagon or cart and the model will become even more interesting. Photos of Unpainted models are worth a thousand words.
Gordon Birrell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Quote from: NORCALLOGGER on July 24, 2011, 04:04:22 PM
Gordon,
Very nice, I like it.
Did you get the lettering cast?
Rick
Not yet Rick, but hadn't forgotten ............ I put them on hold when I went/still going thro' my changing scales period. Have now got the correct widths for 2,5 and 10 ton so will be getting the wavy Caterpillar logo done in 1/35, 1/24 & 1/16
Will keep you updated
Quote from: Scratchman on July 24, 2011, 11:52:12 PM
Will there be some added detail to the dash? Add some kind of wagon or cart and the model will become even more interesting. Photos of Unpainted models are worth a thousand words.
Gordon Birrell
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/
Thanks Gordon
"dash" didn't have one, no instruments as far as I know ... just the back of the fuel tank
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If, if I ever do finish it think it should have a figure included to give idea of scale and maybe just towing/pulling a log/stump out of the ground
Wow! What a great lpiece of work! I'd like to see construction shots, too,
especially an assembly-line sequnce on those gorgeouos tracks.
PS: When Rick Marty sends you a batch of pictures, be prepared to do some building......
Very nice Gordon! It looks just right.
Thanks for all the positive comments, glad it has appealed to a few people.
Will try to answer at least some of the questions in the this and the next post . First a few comments on the modifications:
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This shot shows most of the work, the 2 kit body sides were spaced out with a piece of 5mm square tubing............ with hindsight this is actual too wide probably 3 mm would have been better. The moulding on the kit sides, louvres etc were sanded off and an over lay of 2o thou plastic card was added, height was increased with 2 pieces of 60 thou card. The track was increased by 6 mm after adding some tubing and then the kit end plates were glued on to the tubing and the housing covering the gearing at the end of the axles was built with epoxy putty. At the aft end the kit moulding at the end of the hood/bonnet was cut off and an extended piece of oblong tubing was added. At the front the moulded "sump" ? was cut off and a new flat area created then a new front spring was fabricated using plastic micro-strip, with new support fittings added at the correct place on the the side frames. The side frames were modified by changing the shapes of the cover plates, adding some rivet detail and the kit tracks sanded off......I took the tracks of to the level of the moulded track links, cutting what was left of the track flush with the outside edge of the track links. All the rest was scratchbuilt .
OK track construction, the following are my notes I wrote to remind myself of the correct order to build them in ............ I think they are pretty accurate but until someone tries to follow them and end up with either with a load of track shoes or a mess I won't know.
I have added some thoughts at the bottom for changes/improvements to this process
Crawler Track Construction
1. Place 2 pieces 0.010 x 0.156 parallel with each other 40thou apart(this will give scale 12" wide tracks)
2. Place piece 0.010 x 0.080 @ right angles to above, then space following strip at 4mm intervals( this will give you a track link length of about 8 scale inches and should match the track links left on the kit moulding.)
3. Drill 2 holes 20thou dia @ centre of intersection of above*
4. Fix 30thou ¼ round rod butted against bottom edge of cross piece
5. Fix 40 thou ½ round against top edge of cross piece
6. Butt 0.040 x 0.010 vertically against back edge of ¼ round
7. Trim outside edges along edge of 0.156 strip
8. Cut individual links off, cut tight against ½ round edge
• Optional, decide whither holes or ½ round bolt heads are required
Using Evergreen strips 14" long cut in into 2 x 7" lengths. 3 x 14" strips cut this way will supply sufficient individual track links to cover Tamiya track with about 20% to spare
On one set of strips you need only drill holes/apply bolt heads to outside of track, you can also miss out step 6 .............use these track shoes to do bottom of tracks.
Only got a couple of shots of the construction but hopefully with the above notes it will make sense
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This is what the individual track looks like when you have trimmed it
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When you glue the track on the 2 prongs slide under the link in front leaving a "square hole", when you get to the ends you need to adjust by decreasing the overlap so the the "square hole" becomes more rectangular ..... I have no scientific way of describing its one of those touchy feely moments till it looks right.
When the tracks are are dry I then sanded down the edges and rounded over the profiles, a picture might make more sense here
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Edit. please don't ask which is the right way on for the shoes, the photos I have show some that face one way and other the other way, don't know if it makes a difference what sort of surface you are working on ......... mind you I have at least 2 photsos where the left and right side have the shoes facing different ways ......... so who knows?
Things I would change or do differently;
I would cut my own strips so that I could at least use one set that was 5thou in thickness , then the combined thickness of the track would be 15 thou which in 1/35 would be nearer a scale 1/2inch.
I would space the pairs of strips closer to gether to cut down the waste on the 1/2 and 1/4 round pieces
I would probably use a narrower strip than the 0.156 strips to produce the more common track shoes width of 10 inches ( I took the cartoon route here as I wanted emphasise the tracks as they are such an intregal part of the crawler image .......... 12 inch tracks did exist but were not very common.
Still to solve the last bit of the look, if you look at this realife track shoe you can see there is a raised portion over the linkage
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....... I have tried to model this by using an arc of a plastic tube but cant get a way of repeating with sufficient accuracy over all the shoes .......... and even my old eyes spot the difference of a fraction of a millimetre on a run of tracks.
So hope all that boring stuff helps somebody else ......... here is where I am now
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Thank you for the useful posts and the model update. Adequate. -- Russ
Thanks Russ .......... am still aiming for that "satisfactory", one of these days ;D
Interesting and informative SBS on the tracks. Thanks.
....and I am really sorry to have to ask this, but, what the heck is going on with that paint thickness, orange peel, and sheen? Are you going to leave this? (IMO it's doing a dis-service to your wonderful scratch-building)
Marc
Plans? I have two plans, one is my Holt75 plan which is in ¼" scale and I gotta believe that the early tracks for the 75 and the 1&2 tons were close to the same. I also have an early CAT parts catalog and it has a very nice drawing, and it also has drawings of the individual links for the tracks as well as for most of the parts. I have not scanned all the pages, but most are too large for this forum, send me an email and I will send it to you
MPH
PS thanks for that SBS, it's going to be very helpful!
Gflores1099@yahoo.com
Quote from: marc_reusser on July 25, 2011, 03:32:15 PM
....and I am really sorry to have to ask this, but, what the heck is going on with that paint thickness, orange peel, and sheen? Marc
Thought it might get a reaction from you ................ I picked up the wrong rattle can & the paint was on the model before I knew it!!
Its currently soaking in some oven cleaner which I am hoping will take the paint off and that is all, if not I will get the opportunity to correct all the errors ............ think positive
That sucks...but glad to hear it's correctable, and getting so. If the oven cleaner doesn't work, you can also try 90% Iso Alc. Thats what I use whan I have this problem...errr... I mean if I were to have a problem like this...theoretically speaking. ;)
M
Thanks for the tip Marc, glad to know you have this theoretical knowledge ............. did think about seeing if I could get away with it, the picture is a bit cruel in real life as its only just over 2 inches long it was not so bad.
OK 2 steps forward and 1 back , ......... or maybe 3 steps back who knows
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Could someone pop in tomorrow and see if Marc is OK after seeing the above .... bit worried about his old ticker.
That's already a big improvement in showing off your neat construction on the beastie. -- Dallas
I think it's showing its potential now, with some rust, mud and rubbish; perhaps the odd tool left on the seat or there-abouts. You have the object now it's time I think to give it its character .................. as ever Gordon - bliddy well done my son!
Excellent Job.
This is getting better and better.
Those tracks are the bomb-diggity.
Ken & Andi thanks :)
Completely beats me why Marc just won't let me slap some paint on and then a quick dry brush with some white paint ........... ah the good old days.
Anyway just to break the monotony of the "green machine" I gave the tracks their first coat .............. hoping that it will be a good base for using some of the Games Workshop metallics which I found in the cupboard last night before applying some rust stains and gunge, etc, etc, ..... depending how it goes there may be a lot more gunge than I originally planned.
A better shot of what it looks like, tried to improve the lighting this time
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What these pictures show is how thick 20thou (thickness of the tracks) is when you blow the image up to this level ......... need to work on that for the next one
Hi Gordon,
Would not have thought this kit would work in 1/35th but it looks terrific!
Randy
Hi Gordon, the model looks great so far. what I am wondering is whether yo are going to pop the rivets into the holes in the tracks? In your close up picture it shows the two domed rivets which I am assuming (dangerous I know) that they are to hold components on the underside of the track.
Just asking.
Hi Michael,
no the plan is to leave the holes as I like the character it gives, they say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing therefore the Caterpillar officiandos will probably correct what I am going to say here.
Tracks were cast as one piece to include the underneath linkage , from the info I have the holes were to allow you to bolt on additional rubber shoes to improve grip or protect tarmac road surfaces. Guessing here but I think in some cases they just put bolts in without the additional shoes to stop either a) losing the bolts or b) to limit the amount of dirt/sand etc getting thro' in to the inside of the track with the subsequent increased wear.
If I could figure out how I would post a copy of the page from the PDF of the 2 ton manual which shows the different types of track and separate shoes that were available but I can't and the whole manual is 12.2 MB
That makes sense Gordon, do you have a link to the PDF and the appropriate page.
Michael
Quote from: gfadvance on July 30, 2011, 09:33:33 AM
If I could figure out how I would post a copy of the page from the PDF of the 2 ton manual which shows the different types of track and separate shoes that were available but I can't and the whole manual is 12.2 MB
If you're using a PC, open the page in question ... adjust the "zoom" or "view" on the pdf file to make a reasonable-size image ... or to make enough of the page visible on the screen, etc.
-- Hit the "Print Screen" button (which might say "PrtScr" or some other similar thing on diff. keyboards)
-- Open PC paint (it's already there on most PC's), click "Edit" tab and click "Paste" ... the screen image from the pdf file will appear.
-- Save that in "png" format for best resolution ... then you can select and edit just the section you want to post ... or send me the png file by email and tell me where to crop ...
(You may or may not be able to post png files here. Those give the best resolution for working the image in PC Paint ... might have to save a copy as a jpg when done ... or send it to me, easier to do than explain sometimes!) ;)
-- If you're using an Apple, there's some easier way where you can just select stuff on the screen and drag it somewhere to do what you want ... or so I've heard. ;D
OOOH ... EASIEST version:-- Open pdf file, go to page and adjust zoom/view so everything you want to share is visible on the screen
-- Hit the "Print Screen" key (or key w/ similar abbrev.)
-- Address an email to me ... hit "enter" a few times in the message area to create some lines.
-- RIGHT-CLICK on the first (empty) line and select PASTE ... the screen image will appear ... then click below the photo to get onto one of the other blank lines ... write a message about which part is needed and I'll crop.
PS -- Repeat as needed if there are multiple pages / images needed to convey the info ... more than happy to help a fellow 1/35 scale nut! :P
Cheers,
Dallas
I might be able to scan that page and post that picture? I have the actual catalog
MPH
Crawling along in Beautiful Idaho ;D
Ok, thanks folks .............. think this may work
that's it you beat me to it! ::)
MPH
Thanks Gordon that clears it up then.
Michael
OK we have gone through number of stages now, bit of oil fading?, chipping, rust and wear stains and work on painting the tracks.
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These were taken outside so the colours are just about spot on. bright but overcast day.
Going to spend a bit of time trying to refine what has already been done, then sort out the controls, gear stick and seat cushion.
By the way anybody heard from Marc, not seen or heard a thing since my last efforts in painting were posted ........... now getting a bit concerned ;)
The general blend of colors and subtlety of weathering are excellent. I assume you'll eventually tone down the whole thing since the green is still a little vivid. Overall, the model and the diorama it sits on are wonderful. The photos are good, too. A satisfactory effort thus far. -- Russ
I think you need a greater definition of color between the body and the tracks, the base of the tracks needs to be a deeper base color and the tops of the tracks a lighter worn metal color
Good start!
MPH
Russ,
that "satisfactory" has been printed off and pinned above the desk :D
Gil,
not sure I completely understand your comment, I'm guessing you are talking about the difference between the inside of the track and the outside ?
Those shots were taken early today and as always the case with my modelling they showed me more faults to correct ............. since then I have done a bit of work to polish up the running side of the track, which does increase the contrast ............ waiting for some oil and grease wash which when applied to the inside of the tracks, along the individual links should also help.
These are very cruel :'( closeups off where I am now
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Pretty obviously I am going to have to give my paint station a good clean and be a lot more careful to keep crud off my painted models
QuoteBy the way anybody heard from Marc, not seen or heard a thing since my last efforts in painting were posted ........... now getting a bit concerned
As you can see...your painting has caused me enough concern that I cannot focus properly during my other activities ::) ;D ;D
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I think the track color is fine. Most people tent to model them too rusty and dark. A tractor that has been driven/used in dirt will get its entire track surface polished out very fast. Then once it is parked, you will tend to first see a build-up of orange surface rust...which will, if the tractor remains unused, over time, deepen into the deeper darker rust tones.
M
Yes much better, I should have waited until you were done, sorry
Marc: ? can you stay on the bike? Maybe we need to find you a different sport?
That just hurts to look at, ,.....................
MPH
Gil, no apologies required ... dialogue/critique is what I am looking for
Marc, ouch ! glad you were wearing a helmet
"honest officer, this horrible great big glossy blue/grey thing appeared from nowhere!"
Well it is finished ............ well almost, probably need to do some more weathering once I have sorted out a base for it. Still lots to learn with this painting lark but its better than the last thing I painted in this scale, the crane, (well it was nearly this scale and it will be used as a 1/35 background piece)
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I am waiting for some oil & grease wash but as a good friend has just pointed out I could just make my own mixture .... he's right it is really easy these days to get lazy because there are so many products now available.
Found some old plastic kits, so will probably knock them together quickly and use them to practice with the old air brush and "thin" paint. :)
Great look Gordon, nice job
Fantastic job Gordon ....... you can see your thinking and it works to your advantage. Loving the paint chips and dead paint effect.
And in the spirit of the board............ I might like to see a bit more wear in the footwells, especially below the peddles and in front of them against the bulkhead ......... can't you just see those thumping big "steelies" being stomped onto the peddle and scraping down that paintwork??
Never the less - a great job start to finish. This bodes so well for any future project you might have in mind.
Well done, Gordon! Really like the subtle weathering, variations in coloring (and discoloration) on the panels, etc. Nice work too in bringing out the highlights in a subtle way. In that regard, I'd also like to see a bit more of the opposite ... some more shadowing/shading in the creases, underside of raised details, etc ...
Consider that a minor nitpick or suggestion for future improvement ... I'd be damned pleased if I'd turned out a model that looks as good as this! (Both in construction and finish)
Cheers,
Dallas
Looks good to me! Nice work.
Dallas, thanks may go back and try and emphasis a few places as you suggest.
Andi, thats your artist eye for the detail again ........ your right and it would help resolve why I did not think the back of the fuel tank/floor looked right ....... off to fetch my big tin of Humbrol silver paint, feel an urge to dry brush ;)
I guess there's always room on any model for some additional tweaking (like Andi's excellent
suggestion regarding foot pedal wear, etc.) but overall this is one hum-dinger of a model!
The "feel" of this little critter is wonderful. I love the strap holding up the crank-starter.
Beautiful job, Gordon. You did it again..!!!
Although I had previews of this little beauty I´ll say it again - excellent work Gordon! Looking forward to a base of the same high standard.
Anders ;D
Gordon - I agree with everyone - its excellent its got style and I can smell the petrol and oil fumes and its "finished" great stuff O Gordon of the North -whats next ?
Barney