Westlake Publishing Forums

General Category => Modellers At Work => Topic started by: michael mott on December 10, 2011, 05:01:13 PM

Title: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: michael mott on December 10, 2011, 05:01:13 PM
The little Fowler quadruped that was pictured at the end of the inspection car is now underway.

I have begun work on the wheels doing it the hard way by assembling various bits of brass.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7316x800.jpg&hash=bdd7c44fe3985f9e47d005fd6f2218266f237d82)

I stuck some printed information to the brass discs so that I could fret out the spokes with a jewelers saw.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7327x800.jpg&hash=08a4b14ad27944878ab9e06b26fa18497443add1)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7328x800.jpg&hash=e199bdd779fc397d6bf2de9e436d5f64b9ecd0e1)

After fretting them all out I have now started on the ribs and hubs.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7339x1024.jpg&hash=60234fdcf13aed2b2ca52cfbf68e6f93d516af7d)

I devised a crude way to get the angle of the ribs these are also being cut out with a jewelers saw.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7351x800.jpg&hash=0593388d2cd779b2e0cdd7df1d8bf9a969430e74)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7341x800.jpg&hash=883e737de5b1f0bd833b420f87b5e0fd2299f975)

only 3 more sets to go.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7355x1024.jpg&hash=987d2e2b2c81d84d6685f0d586f435983363fc86)

regards Michael
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: Mr Potato Head on December 10, 2011, 05:33:16 PM
what angle is that? nut angle ? :P
great work! that's a lot of work!
MPH
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: michael mott on December 10, 2011, 05:56:46 PM
I was looking it up in the sine tables but got lost! ;D

Michael
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: vincep on December 10, 2011, 06:40:05 PM
nice work Michael,  A simple technique with great results. CNC not required. :o
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: Ken Hamilton on December 10, 2011, 07:47:37 PM
Well worth all the work.  Nice job.
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: Ray Dunakin on December 10, 2011, 09:23:15 PM
Those wheels look great! I don't know if I'd ever have the patience to do that but it's nice to know how it's done, just in case.

Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: marc_reusser on December 12, 2011, 01:47:01 AM
Ummm..ah...WOW! :o. That is some lovely fabrication.
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: Wesleybeks on December 12, 2011, 05:17:50 AM
That is awesome.

Wish I had the tools to do this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: lab-dad on December 12, 2011, 07:40:51 AM
Very impressive! i would not want to make one, let alone 4!
What is the actual tread diameter?
This also has me wondering how the "real" ones were made.
Can not imagine them cutting out a disc like you. May be 5 spokes welded up, or cast.......
I may have to try one just for fun.
-Marty
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: nk on December 18, 2011, 08:40:40 PM
Thise are some nice wheels. I like how you solved the angle problem and grabbed it by the nuts!
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: granitechops on December 19, 2011, 02:37:02 PM
Quote from: lab-dad on December 12, 2011, 07:40:51 AM
Very impressive! i would not want to make one, let alone 4!
What is the actual tread diameter?
This also has me wondering how the "real" ones were made.
Can not imagine them cutting out a disc like you. May be 5 spokes welded up, or cast.......
I may have to try one just for fun.
-Marty

If the originals were cast, as I suspect they may well have been ( late 19 - early 20th cent?)
then the original could well have been fabricated out of hard wood individual parts by a very skilled joiner/craftsman,

very similar to mikes method,

& the pattern used to cast the wheels in sand,
I once had to clear an old foundry, & handled some fine examples of the pattern Makers art.
Maybe the spokes were even flat with the webs dowelled/jointed into them.

some cast iron flywheels for example had spokes that were obviously made for the pattern by turning, before assembly

Nice work Mike, wish my hands were as steady & my patience as strong
you cant beat the character of a hand built piece
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: michael mott on January 02, 2012, 08:26:34 PM
Thanks all for your kind words, yes I would suspect that the originals were cast in sand.
the overall diameter is 1.6" amd the tread is 1.5.

here is the latest picture of the first wheel soldered up
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7388x800.jpg&hash=ba2570724cd3f77f2a0ff213b426b8552b021321)

Michael
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: finescalerr on January 02, 2012, 08:27:45 PM
Wow. -- Russ
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: Malachi Constant on January 02, 2012, 09:03:03 PM
Yes, indeed ... that is a thing of beauty!  -- Dallas
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: Wesleybeks on January 03, 2012, 01:32:10 AM
I have to agree with Russ and Dallas. Fantastic work.
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: SandiaPaul on January 03, 2012, 04:45:24 AM
That's great! Care to share exactly how you did the soldering?

Paul
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: michael mott on January 03, 2012, 07:48:35 AM
Thank you all, I will take some SBS pictures of the next wheel, the first one I got so engrossed in the process I forgot to take any pictures.

I did start with the spoked disk out of the rim, added the hub the one spoke at a time. then cleaned the assembly up before putting it back into the rim to solder it in place. I took a lot of time with the rim and let each joint cool enough so that I did not disturb the flange on the rim then worked at the opposite end of the spoke. Basically they were done in pairs.

Michael
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: michael mott on January 04, 2012, 04:42:17 PM
Sandy here is the SBS I used Duzall liquid flux 

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7394x800.jpg&hash=f28a820d3bdafe832c905204120a6fa3739928e2)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7400x800.jpg&hash=cbf56aaf18deb79e84823a02f3a01e3d0e05c925)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7406x800.jpg&hash=b64baa1887b48a4a1200f90cbced9560f0f0d4b1)
applying flux with a small brush, while holding the rib down with a dental pick

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7410x800.jpg&hash=0af5e1262a454ca3dd30b7bfa950e1acda3baae0)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7418x800.jpg&hash=79fa1d1da9c3132688928bed30d5c6bcf8fe174b)
The tool I use for scraping away surplus solder it is double ended and right and left handed.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7431x800.jpg&hash=1ea25ca2b86721dc644a05df9581ce377cf0a1bd)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7433x800.jpg&hash=589c3e9cffeb329cc79028b8afe86a99f268f4b5)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7434x800.jpg&hash=32f89733f2ad84af450234ffc1f1db9bb5670111)
After pushing the rim back over the spoked assembly supported by the spacing disks
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Fquadruped%2FIMG_7438x800.jpg&hash=51951a7011de3fea47e1922ef8fd96613d68de4b)
ready to solder the spokes to the rim.

Michael
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: EZnKY on January 04, 2012, 05:01:44 PM
Very nice - thanks for the step by step.
I gotta get one of those scraper thingys...
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: Ken Hamilton on January 04, 2012, 06:10:19 PM
.....beautiful....
Thanks for the SBS.
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: SandiaPaul on January 04, 2012, 06:26:15 PM
Thanks, nice work!

Paul
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: finescalerr on January 05, 2012, 12:40:17 AM
Now that we see how easy it is, we're no longer impressed. Ho-hum. How very mediocre .... -- ssuR
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: Wesleybeks on January 05, 2012, 02:16:13 AM
Thanks for that SBS Michael. I would like to try my hand at soldering. Where would you suggest i buy a soldering iron and the necessary tools.
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: michael mott on January 05, 2012, 12:59:50 PM
Thanks everyone, boy Russ you are a tough taskmaster ;)

Wesley, Depending on what it is that you want to solder there are many options, including all of the newer lead free solders.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Ftools%2FIMG_7441x800.jpg&hash=cddb180e873066b296e888f250266cd2ab298a0d)

I chose to purchase an electronic soldering station quite a few years ago (2006) and I am using an electronic component solder that i purchased at the same time as the Weller soldering station, the particular solder is Kester 66/44 which does contain lead. The Duzall flux capiliaries well and i have had this bottle for at least 15 years. I am sure that there are newer equivalents that the folk who are familiar with soldering up the brass etch kits will be much better informed than I am.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi5.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy169%2Fmy30mm%2Ftools%2FIMG_7442x800.jpg&hash=fa331992f5d29601096baee66b6a53dcbe77eaaf)
I just found the soldering tape that I had squirreled away so I might try it on something. I couldn't resist adding in the old copper Iron ::)


I know that there are some newer soft solders that melt at different Temps but I am not familiar with any of them, I might be able to do a better job of soldering if I had some better knowledge.

I know that my answer is not really that helpful, other than to say visit your local electronics shop or supplier and even Weller's website
http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm (http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/weller/index.cfm)

Michael
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: lab-dad on January 05, 2012, 04:28:47 PM
Not to hijack but FWIW;
I have a craftsman gun (dual wattage), a radioshack pencil (dual wattage)
And a MAP gas torch. Heat depends on thickness.
The secret to good soldering is FLUX and dont use too much solder.
Often all you need is what will stick to the tip of the gun.
I also find if I can position the pieces with weights the end result is much better.
-Marty
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: artizen on January 05, 2012, 09:55:06 PM
Because I work with crayons and ten thumbs my soldering technique has always been to hold the pieces with heavy metal weights so I still have two hands to hold the solder stick and the iron. This was inadvertently valuable when soldering up LEDs to resistors as the heavy metal weights disperse the heat so that my fumbling around trying to get solder to stick to itself and make a bond didn't fry the electric bits. I truly envy people who stayed awake in metal and woodworking classes at school. But I suppose I stayed awake during English and maths. Ho hum.

I always use flux after watching a 70+ (years old) modeller solder 0402 LEDs by hand using his secret hand made flux of scrapings of violin rosin and meths. Worked for me too (but not the 0402s though.)
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: finescalerr on January 06, 2012, 01:09:38 AM
If you look at Michael's tool assortment you can guess why his solder joints are so clean: He knows what he is doing and has the right tool for each job. Even luck is no substitute for expertise! -- Russ
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: Wesleybeks on January 06, 2012, 03:47:04 AM
Thanks for te info Michael. Ill have a look around for more info and hopefully get some tools this weekend.
Title: Re: Quadruped in 7/8ths scale
Post by: michael mott on January 06, 2012, 04:17:45 PM
QuoteBecause I work with crayons and ten thumbs

C'mon Ian show what colours you are using at least!

Thanks Russ

Michael