Tried a 'really' low-tech scenery method today and would like some opinions on it. I think that it turned out pretty nice and for the price (almost nothing) it is a pretty sweet deal. The whole scene is about 3" square. The base is builders foam and the ground cover is two grades of sawdust mixed with durhams water putty. The leaves are real crumbled up leaves and the puddle is just 5 minute epoxy mixed with mineral spirits with a drop of acrylic paint in it. The grass is my daughters hair chopped up fine with a little green dye added.
Not bad for free!
The earth needs more "layers" or variation in size(s)
From large to small. Yours looks more like mud, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
The leaves have good color but look like ground up leaves. Scale leaves are hard to do, but a few well placed would go far. Especially the one in the puddle - a focal point IMO.
The "grass"; well grass dont grow like that. It comes up from the ground.
Yes sometimes pieces blow around but normally it is "growing"
Also by growing it is usually alive (or more alive) in the center and dying as it moves out.
Hope this helps,
marty
Quote from: lab-dad on May 30, 2013, 06:44:28 AM
Not bad for free!
The "grass"; well grass dont grow like that. It comes up from the ground.
Yes sometimes pieces blow around but normally it is "growing"
Not after a windy rain storm... the kind that leaves puddles on the ground
If your daughter has green hair .... Well, now that I think about it, why wouldn't she?
As for the little diorama, despite Marty's comments (and I think he makes good points) it looks good. If it were mine I would consider it about half finished and would act on whatever comments I might receive to make it even better, kind of like following a tutorial. It's fun to do and I've learned a lot from that approach.
Either way, from an artistic perspective, consider adding something vertical as a stronger focal point, even if something as simple as a post next to the puddle.
Russ
Hi Russ,
Glad you liked it, and no my daughters hair is not green :) This was never intended to be a diorama, it was merely an experiment to see how Durhams putty would do in groundwork. Yes, I agree that I could go on detailing the scene but it is probably doomed to the trashcan. I do feel that the putty/sawdust mix has potential in this application. Especially when some more and different textures are added to the mix.
Chris
Agree with Marty's points.
That's a good looking promising start, but it could be improved a lot with minimal work.
- Varying texture and coloring as well as wetness/dryness (?word?) of the ground.
- Dead leaves are a bit random so far, you might try finer particles to fill the area between the larger ones.
- The concrete slabs are nice, but a bit soft in texture.
- Your puddle suffer from classic still water epoxy resin puddle coloring. It's too red (a matter of taste of course) but epoxy always looks orange/red when used over earth/mud colors. you might want to try to draw ochre/sand/buff clouds in it with oil paint.
I've just done a very similar looking groundwork (can be found of page 4 and 5 of this thread)
http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=2007.60 (http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=2007.60)
:)
Still working on my experiment with low/no cost scenery. I have made some changes based on the recommendations that I have received here.
Chris
I'm no expert in these matters (who is) but the first pic in the last post looks to me as if someone with a square foot splashed up a bunch of sludge onto the surrounding space.
The grass looks too round and even, a blade of crass is called a blade for the obvious reason that it is a blade shape.
other than that it looks very interesting.
Michael
Quote from: michael mott on June 01, 2013, 04:12:52 PM
I'm no expert in these matters (who is) but the first pic in the last post looks to me as if someone with a square foot splashed up a bunch of sludge onto the surrounding space.
The grass looks too round and even, a blade of crass is called a blade for the obvious reason that it is a blade shape.
Michael
Gee Michael, any other insults you feel like sending my way? Constructive criticism is fine and helpful but I just take your comments as downright mean-spirited. I am quite new at this and have a lot of work in this (admittedly a test) piece and was proud of it. I am sorry it is so obviously crappy to you.
Chris
Chris --
First of all, welcome!
Second ... on this particular forum ... all of the feedback is intended to be constructive (quite certainly including Michael's) ...
HOWEVER ... and this is a VERY BIG HOWEVER ...
On this particular forum, we don't gandy-dance around the terminology ... the camraderie & friendliness is assumed and generally unspoken ... the criticism is offered in a rather direct (and perhaps seemingly blunt) fashion ... BUT ... NO-ONE here is mean-spirited ... each participant judges his/her own work as "harshly" as anyone else's ... and ALL of this is done in the spirit of doing better.
It can be extremely deflating at times ... I have certainly found that ... in each and every case, however, the criticism has helped me see my work thru another (or several other) set of eyes ... and in each and every case, the criticism has given me at least an opportunity to improve ... whether or not I end up meeting the challenge successfully.
I really truly mean the "welcome" part ... and hope that you will believe / understand what I am saying about the "frank" (or "blunt") tone here ... and keep coming back! (Have a look at a couple of my threads here ... these buggers have driven me to do a number of things over-n-over until I either got them right or at least made them better ... it's frustrating at times, but for me quite inspiring ... I hope you'll stick it out and find the same benefits.)
Cheers,
Dallas
hi there i liked your first effort.
take the comments with a grain of salt and do what is right for you after all it is a hobby
yer right i take my hobby very seriously.
kind regards kim
PS -- If you don't have a static grass applicator, there is a simple & effective way to make the grass "stand up" using spray glue. It's illustrated nicely in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2rOO1hN8_U
Mind what he says about allowing the adhesive to get tacky before dabbing the grass "cigar" and it'll work quite well.
Cheers,
Dallas
Chris, as the owner of this forum, I would urge you to believe every word Dallas wrote. This isn't where you want to go if your ego requires (meaningless) compliments. The real compliment is that an expert considers your work good enough to criticize. That means he thinks you have talent and potential.
If that is difficult for you to deal with then, honestly, this would be the wrong place to post anything. If, on the other hand, you can put aside your annoyance (something we all feel initially when we hear criticism), you may realize the comment was valid.
If you still consider it a nitpick, the final thought I will leave you with is that, when your work reaches a certain level, the only criticisms left are nitpicks. Learning from them lifts your modeling from good to excellent.
Can ya dig it? Groovy.
Russ
Chris,
Dont get offendd or discouraged....we all get dinged and whacked upon at some point.....it good for the soul, drives one to drink, and pushes one to keep improving.
I like the new changes, and think you're on the right track. My two critiques would be:
1. The leaves themselves; the ground-up material you used seems a bit too thick and have a gloss finish that is a bit out of scale, and when it broke/ shredded, the shapes came came out a bit too hard edged. You might want to have a look at some things from the spice cabinet like dried oregano, or thyme.....it tends to be thinner, break more irregularly, and have a bit more surface texture.
2. I am not sure about the paver texture...it seems overly rough, for cut edge stone material.....so absically just curious what type of paver you are representing, and if you used a reference image to work from.
Cheers,
Marc
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all of the welcomes here, greatly appreciated. Yes, constructive criticism is welcomed by me but when that criticism is in the form of a (semi-insulting) joke then it becomes a little more bitter.
Moving on from that, I wish that this would have turned out looking a little better. Obviously the ground up leaves (I will surely try the spice cabinet next time) will not work in the scales that I am working in (1-35 to 1/24). The pavers were really there just to take up space and be a 'foil' to the ground, they were basically just tossed there. I used no reference and had nothing in mind when I made them. The whole reason for doing this was to focus on the ground texture. Just curious on what you guys typically use for this, my recipe consisted of varying degrees of sawdust mixed with durhams putty. I thought that it looked pretty good...but oh well :) .
Also,thanks Dallas, I have seen that video, this is basically what I did but it didnt seem to turn out as intended :-\. What do you guys use for grass in this big scale? Most of the commercially available grasses seem sized for RR scales which is why I tried the hair.
Chris
Hi Chris, belated welcome.
Stay with it, we have all been there ......... I have had several memorable critiques of my work which have initially prompted the the sort of response you would expect from a Glaswegian ...... You know, violence can solve anything ;D
However taking a deep breath and looking back at the work most of if not all the comments have been valid, it helps dispel the danger of believing your own propaganda ........ you know something is not right but you think you will get away with it, my classic example of this was in my 4 in line trailer and a certain winch ::) ::)
Anyway back to grass , you may find something useful here
In the middle of this thread are pics
http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=1993.0
And if of interest, how it was done
http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=1999.0
Gordon,
Your grass looks fantastic and it exactly what I wanted to end up with. I am not in the UK and will be looking for a more local source for some of that type of fur. Do you happen to know of what material it is, I am assuming that it is a man-made material.
Thanks,
Chris
Chris,
Try a search under "Faux Fur" you should get some local suppliers who will stock a variety of types
Although I have not tried it Marc R. Came with a suggestion which is worth following up ...... Fishing Tackle shop, you need one that specialises in Fy Fishing lures , these guys use a lot of natural fur for tying flies and these places sell a lot of different furs many of which will be coarser hair, which I think may be more realistic
Let us know how you get on, other people's experiments, success or failures are a great source of learning for all of us
A man of many failures and a very full waste bin ;)
Chris --
Ed (eTraxx) posted close-up photos of a variety of spices in this thread:
http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=2115.0
I've played with oregano for leaves on an O scale diorama recently and found Marc's observations to hold true there ...
Also, I'm just getting started with a static grass applicator (some notes and pictures in that same thread). I got an assortment of 6mm static grasses from "Aussie Scenics" (on ebay) -- those are about a foot high in O scale, which puts them at about 8-9" in 1/35 or 6" in 1/24 ...
Noch also makes 12mm static grass which is available from a variety of sources, for example:
http://www.sceneryexpress.com/products.asp?dept=1046&pagenumber=4&sort_on=&sort_by=
Keep rolling! Also, read around the forum and you'll find that there are quite a few "sharp edged" (aka "smart ass") comments ... especially among and between the long-time regulars ... and if you really read thru the stuff and see what comes of it ... well, you'll really be glad when they start "letting you have it" ...
And, by then, your skin will be so tough, the mosquitos will literally bounce off ... which is an added benefit! ;D
Now ... go play in the mud! Have fun & post more pix ...
Cheers,
Dallas
Quote from: compressor man on June 02, 2013, 04:24:23 AM
The pavers were really there just to take up space and be a 'foil' to the ground, they were basically just tossed there. I used no reference and had nothing in mind when I made them. The whole reason for doing this was to focus on the ground texture ...
Fully understand what you're saying about the pavers ... and the context there ... but, before I forget ... if you like Gordon's grass work (which is great!) ... you should see what he's done making cobblestones using ordinary air-dry clay:
http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=549.msg30151#msg30151
I've tried it and found it quite "approachable" ... ie, easy to get similar results without a big learning curve! ;D
-- Dallas
Guys, thanks for all of the help that has been given over the last couple of days. Really appreciate advice from all of the really great talent that I see here. If anyone if curious, the ground/grass experiment was intended to go on this 1/32 diorama that I was working on a couple of years ago and have recently dug back out. I have never before made a really successful grass and dirt, etc job and wanted to pull out all of the stops for this project. Again thanks for the help.
Chris
Chris
I am truly sorry you took my serious comment as being mean spirited, I can assure you I did not make it in any way as an insult or put down, I was truly trying to help with your experiment, I was being as observant as possible. As we work with a new idea we sometimes fall into the trap of not seeing the forest for the trees, and a comment from another modeler or a layman can trigger the thing we are trying to resolve.
At a local museum where there are some dioramas of the natural landscape with animals the grass looks as real as if were really growing. I asked the builder how that was achieves her response was the grass was cut from paper and painted and each blade was planted, I was stunned it was so simple and such an elegant solution, the material costs were tiny compared to the value that the time taken achieve the results. As I read the comments that proceeded mine it was this long ago discussion that popped into my head. I thought it worth sharing, perhaps if I had shared the whole story, you would have understood why I made the comment.
The modelbuilders on this forum are a wonderful group of extremely observant and yes often nit picky to the 'N' degree, never once have I considered real criticism from them as mean spirited.
So again I am sorry that you thought mine was.
In the spirit of what this forum is all about Please have a second look at my comment while looking at the picture I referenced. I think you have a good Idea that needs a little more work.
Michael
Quote from: michael mott on June 02, 2013, 05:44:11 PM
Chris
In the spirit of what this forum is all about Please have a second look at my comment while looking at the picture I referenced. I think you have a good Idea that needs a little more work.
Michael
Hi Michael,
IM sent. :)
Chris