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General Category => General Forums => Topic started by: Malachi Constant on July 13, 2013, 08:56:01 PM

Title: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: Malachi Constant on July 13, 2013, 08:56:01 PM
Hey Guys --

It seems to me, there have been one or more threads or bits here about shaping styrene sheet over a wooden mandrel or form ... maybe something Ken Hamilton did on one of his project?  I think it was along the lines of vacuum-forming without a vacuum  ;D ... something about warming/stretching styrene sheet over the form ...

Does this ring any bells?  Y'all know if that's been posted here and, if so, where?  ???  ???  ???

Considering doing a range hood like the one shown below ... it would be a bugger to build up the shape by itself, but a breeze to make a solid form ... if I can find out what to do from there ...  ???  ::)  :P

Thanks!
Dallas
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: mad gerald on July 13, 2013, 10:54:46 PM
Dallas,

Quote from: Malachi Constant on July 13, 2013, 08:56:01 PM
It seems to me, there have been one or more threads or bits here about shaping styrene sheet over a wooden mandrel or form ... maybe something Ken Hamilton did on one of his project?  I think it was along the lines of vacuum-forming without a vacuum  ;D ... something about warming/stretching styrene sheet over the form ...

Does this ring any bells?  Y'all know if that's been posted here and, if so, where?  ???  ???  ???

... a vacuum-method is mentioned here ... http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=1986.0 (http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=1986.0) ... but I'm not quite sure if this, what you're after (as there's no styrene involved) ... ?!?!? And Marc did some warming/forming styrene (rear wall IIRC) over a piece of wood in his Gas Mechanical Bash-thread

Cheers


Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: marc_reusser on July 13, 2013, 11:45:15 PM
I did it here on the Bachmann rebuild as well http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=437.90,  unfortunately most of the pics on in the thread are missing, as they were part of the old Terrapin site, but the text and a couple of uploaded pics are still there.


Just buy more styrene than you think you will need, and use oven mitts or Mechanix heat resitant gloves, if using the heat gun and pull-forming. :)
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: greenie on July 13, 2013, 11:47:58 PM
Malachi, it is easy to do, the only thing is the time it will take you, to make the vacuum box and frames for the sheet styrene.

It's a very handy item to have at your disposal, lots of endless possibilities will pop up for you to use it.

Here's a link to what I used as a starting point, read everything, as what he say's, is correct.

http://www.automodeler.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=1243

It works really well, make sure that the vacuum box you make, is big enough or, even a bit bigger than what you think you will need.
It's easy to make it a smaller working area, but you can't ever make it bigger.

I used chip board to make the sides and used a slab of old acrylic for the top with the holes drilled in it. Used a tube of silicone to seal every joint so it doesn't leak.
To make the work area smaller, to save on styrene, I used a vinyl floor tile with a hole cut in it, to suit the smaller frames I needed.

Two sized frames, small and large, so I can do a lot bigger items when needed.

Make sure the bucks you make are smaller than the article you require by the thickness of the styrene you going to use

Just have to watch the styrene when it's in the oven softening, so it does not droop down too far and break, then make a mess on the oven floor, S.W.M.B.O. will not approve of that happening at all.

Here's what my vac box looks like,

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv629%2Fradish1us%2FP1011945_zps01bf32df.jpg&hash=25a43aa8f490a022f4c4339b4d6c7e169f021620)




With the reduced size floor tile in place

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv629%2Fradish1us%2FP1011944_zpsd581d3dc.jpg&hash=c39fdc8c661696d1664991f36fc6b23549456ad8)



(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv629%2Fradish1us%2FP1011942_zps6ad0a976.jpg&hash=f6e5619ea05cc15bb1f047eb0ce58ae6a62a8b42)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv629%2Fradish1us%2FP1011943_zps9d8e6ef5.jpg&hash=158027df6bb23abae358c60e88b04a5ab0b596c3)


Had to make a seat and a few other bits for this.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv629%2Fradish1us%2F2c2fdd3d_zps2b87dea4.jpg&hash=827cd77196c857b70aa176a649cc5349b7dee6f1)

Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: finescalerr on July 14, 2013, 12:46:56 AM
Does anybody here do less than outstanding work? -- Russ
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on July 14, 2013, 12:51:55 AM
Dallas,

Vacuum forming is the professional way to go, but if you want the amateur way 'cause you can't be bothered building the vacuum boxe this might help

http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=549.msg26521#msg26521

no need to feel overwhelming feelings of guilt Marc ;D

For your "simple shape " should not be difficult , suggest you do it on the vertical plane not from the wall, you might stretch the plastic too much , use something like 30thou plastic card and make sure the tolerance between the carved mould shape and the flat piece with the hole is no more than about 2mm. Another thought make your carved mould about 10 to 15mm deeper than you actually need so you can trim away the curve.
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: marc_reusser on July 14, 2013, 01:22:18 AM
Quote from: gfadvance on July 14, 2013, 12:51:55 AM

no need to feel overwhelming feelings of guilt Marc

OUCH!  (bang head)
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: marc_reusser on July 14, 2013, 01:23:20 AM
Hot Damn! That is beautiful little coach!
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: billmart on July 14, 2013, 05:05:11 AM
Dallas -
You might want to take a look here.
http://www.7-8ths.info/index.php?topic=16680998.0

Jim Russell, who is an excellent styrene modeler in 1:13.7 scale (7/8ths inch = 1 foot), describes the vacuum former he built, and a technique he uses to improve the process in certain instances.

Bill Martinsen
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: greenie on July 14, 2013, 05:50:29 AM
Quote from: marc_reusser on July 14, 2013, 01:23:20 AM
Hot Damn! That is beautiful little coach!

Hi Mark, it's not small at all, it's actually a 1/8th scale model.

regards  greenie  


pssst,----- it's called a Sydney Brass Sulky, for very obvious reasons.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv629%2Fradish1us%2FP1010018copy1_zpsa7738cd6.jpg&hash=0c533ed88d2e521a3080efef4a0182f7c9b70f68)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv629%2Fradish1us%2FP1010076copy1_zps084a9117.jpg&hash=caea08ac77bd035ba31e934a45e9fe43b0311a74)

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv629%2Fradish1us%2FP1010077_zps95b97653.jpg&hash=c1a6fd4d5b5f89ab6357cc373871a19b9a3a3a23)
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: finescalerr on July 14, 2013, 11:46:31 AM
That thing belongs in a museum. Adequate. -- Russ
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: greenie on July 14, 2013, 04:31:45 PM
Thank you, for the compliments Russ and Marc.



regards greenie
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: Ray Dunakin on July 14, 2013, 09:33:51 PM
Ken Hamilton used the non-vacuum method to create the hood of his 1/24th scale Lumber Buggy. It's on this page of his build thread:

http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=405.15 (http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=405.15)

Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: Malachi Constant on July 14, 2013, 11:34:17 PM
Outstanding response!  ;D

Thanks to EVERYONE for those very helpful answers -- I "think" I've worked out how I want to approach this ... will report back one way or another ... (cuz I hate it when someone posts one of those "how do you do this?" threads and then never responds about whether or not the replies and suggestions worked!)  (Obviously, you guys are getting this to work ... so that's encouraging!)  :)

RAY -- That's the one I was trying to remember!  Bonus points to you.  8)

Cheers,
Dallas
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: chester on July 15, 2013, 04:53:19 AM
Gorgeous sulky. Good luck with the stretching Dallas.
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: BKLN on July 15, 2013, 11:25:04 AM
Dallas,
I think you would save a lot of time by just browsing any packaging for pens, school supplies, anything that comes with a vacuum formed cover. The shape that you are looking for is not uncommon in packaging. 30min at Staples or the grocery store might be a little easier than building a vaccuum pump and burning your fingers on hot styrene.

Christian
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: Design-HSB on July 15, 2013, 12:22:00 PM
Hello Dallas,

I have also been built and used vacuum forming molds.
The Stirnwandjalosie is made ​​because it has many details.

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buntbahn.de%2Ffotos%2Fdata%2F6614%2F13BD4yg01.jpg&hash=56a4fdd3eebf79292f05665170847d7413dac82b)

If I understand correctly you want to rebuild the exhaust possessions.
All surfaces are ruled surfaces simple and no free-form surfaces.
Thus, it is safe easiest and most stable part of the plates to put together.
To help you so you can create the block of wood and form the plates of it.
In deep drawing, otherwise you have to be very careful not traveling the plate on the sharp edge.
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: greenie on July 15, 2013, 05:18:40 PM
Malachi, if your only ever going to make that ONE item, then making a vacuum box is a bit over the top.

Using a cigarette lighter on a bit of polystyrene, is surely a disaster waiting to happen.

You can get polystyrene to do your bidding, with a simple shape, by using a fan forced oven, to soften the styrene quite easily and in a fully controllable way too.

The shape you want, the exhaust hood, does lend itself to this type of heat forming, you will have to make the 'buck' a bit deeper and higher, so you can trim of the unwanted edges and get the straight edges you require.

Be extra carefull with the finish on the 'buck', as what imperfections that are on the surface of it,  these will come through with the soft styrene replicating these imperfections.

Put the 'buck' in the oven at about 200 Celsius and let it heat up for about 10 mins, then, open the oven and place a square/rectangle of polystyrene over the top of the heated buck.

Close the oven door and watch as the styrene starts to droop with the heat, this will happen in about 5 to 7 mins, when it has dribbled down over the 'buck and you reckon it's right, out of the oven and let it cool, jobs done, eh.

Your only using 'gravity' to pull the heat softened styrene down over the 'buck', --- it will work, ---- you might have to try it a few times to get it correct, BUT IT CAN BE DONE.

I used this method many years ago to make ends that 'bowed out' for a storage tank, I even swiped the dogs metal food bowl to do this, that worked like a charm, as the heat was coming from the inside of the metal dish, as well as from the fan forced air in the oven.

Just remember, that there is more than -------------- " one way to skin a cat ".

Thinking outside the box at times, has it's many rewards.



regards  greenie
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: Mobilgas on July 15, 2013, 05:24:14 PM
I seen this on E-bay last year there was a guy that would sell you a Old...Mattel Vac-U-Form machine that's been Upgraded-converted.  Punch in Mattel Vac u form machine on E-bay and it will come up.....and he tell's you all he does to the machine in upgrades  ;D
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: pwranta193 on July 15, 2013, 10:50:34 PM
In the vein of "not answering your actual question" - this has wine bottle/lead foil written all over it.  Find your buck, and cut panels to approximate and emboss/rub/shape to fit.  Not like you haven't done something similar  ::) ;D

Or are you looking for an excuse for more work bench cluttering gadgetry?  That's always my secondary goal.
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: Malachi Constant on July 16, 2013, 04:51:16 AM
Quote from: pwranta193 on July 15, 2013, 10:50:34 PM
Or are you looking for an excuse for more work bench cluttering gadgetry?  That's always my secondary goal.

No additional cluttering is required here!  Spend 10 minutes yesterday looking for a little tube of Dremel cut-off wheels that were right behind another object in the clutter.  Doh!

Thanks again for all the very helpful replies -- you guys have a lot of resourcefulness.  Have an idea in mind and hope to make a preliminary test of that later this morning ... and if that doesn't work, there are at least a dozen back-up plans in this thread ... AND ... one member kindly send a PM offering to vacuum-form the item on his gadget if I make a buck, so that's yet another great back-up plan.

Stay-tuned!  (It won't happen super quick, but it'll happen eventually ... and there may or may not even be progress today!)  ;D  -- Dallas
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: Malachi Constant on July 16, 2013, 10:53:08 AM
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2184.0;attach=11093;image)

Progress report!

First, thanks again to everyone for all the great ideas you've offered ... no doubt, many of them will find use in a variety of projects.

Now, here's what ended up happening ... while reading Gordon's description of using male and female forms to press plastic shapes ... and thinking about the inside and outside of this particular shape (shown above) ... it occurred to me that I could simply build the thing if I had some hollow quarter round ... which I could make by cutting hollow tubing into quarters!  ;D

Those of you with the appropriate tools and soldering gear could make the same shape from thin-wall brass tubing ... I ended up using PVC (or ABS or whatever it is) because it was the only thing I had on hand with the right diameter ... and it will get some skirting (again as shown above) that will give the appearance of a thin profile at the bottom edge.

So, first step, cut a length of tubing long enough for the desired pieces ... cut some styrene squares that match the diameter and mark center lines on those for quartering ... then score the quarters and cut in half.  The squares were glued to the tubing:  (a) to provide center marks for sawing along the length and (b) to keep the tubing from rotating while being fed thru the saw (actually a cut-off wheel mounted in a Dremel drill press).

The only "trick"here ... and this is essential for this particular shape, is to cut the miters before cutting the tubing into quarters ...

Rather than building any fancy jigs to support the pieces while cutting into quarters ... a scrap of stripwood was used.  ;D

Then the pieces were glued together, a bit of styrene added to fill the rectangular opening at center ... some preliminary sanding ... and there's the basic shape awaiting final sanding, putty & detailing.
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: Gordon Ferguson on July 16, 2013, 01:16:04 PM
That works !

Well done always nice to see another way of approaching a problem .......... And you could now use that as your "buck" if you wanted to practice your plastic moulding  ;D
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: chester on July 16, 2013, 03:10:07 PM
Bingo!
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: greenie on July 16, 2013, 03:32:15 PM
Well there ya go, more than one way to skin a cat, eh.

regards  greenie
Title: Re: Vacuum-forming or heat-forming styrene sheet ???
Post by: finescalerr on July 16, 2013, 08:34:35 PM
My heavens, that actually looks good! And look at all the trouble you caused before you thought of it .... -- Russ