Westlake Publishing Forums

General Category => Maritime Modeling => Topic started by: turtle on December 03, 2014, 08:24:20 PM

Title: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: turtle on December 03, 2014, 08:24:20 PM
Good evening all,
Here be my latest headache - Boiki Class Destroyer of the Imperial Navy 1900's era building to the 1/35th scale so approx dimensions = 1828 mm x 183 mm and displacing 8.5 kg.

1:1's:

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F001_zpsd623e9c4.jpg&hash=43dce62a589468ff2347d44b2929f06cc8ab1277)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F002_zps4659acb6.jpg&hash=c734b884a6c43a45d729ed97c24ca330c1e13316)

Basic GA's

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F003_zps45e389a6.jpg&hash=f7dd5bd9c2e0d2447dde95a8a10dadfc2cbce1c1)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F004_zpsf741ca90.jpg&hash=18f6d27b8a7f55efd4649221c85e018b6ed60e86)

and the startings of a basic hull and deck:

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F005_zps52586cb6.jpg&hash=66a613c0197c9de9fde76a6a7e7c1e5023220be5)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F006_zpsb4247b05.jpg&hash=5002200478a48e9963a9d887da6a3aada3ebf32e)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F007_zps88d4508e.jpg&hash=54e1abaf51ec70cf5dda5f4d2595841325eefd76)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F008_zps1b92296e.jpg&hash=cfa5be7ab9d79cee9fed039c39e6d60a40e0346e)

not the prettiest of sights at the moment, but after a couple of hours on the end of a sanding block it shouldn't look as bad  :-\.
Lots of rethinking various things due to the larger scale and narrow beam - guessing it may be a little 'tippy'.
Cheers for having a gander.
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: marc_reusser on December 03, 2014, 11:11:16 PM
This looks like its going to be spectacular.
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: 5thwheel on December 04, 2014, 03:27:17 PM
Nice pictures.  Given the size of the men in the photos, that is not a very large ship. Almost has a submarine look to it.  Long and sleek; probably moved through the water smoothly but very hard to turn. With the narrow width it probably rocked a lot.  Four boilers; wonder what kind of engines it had.  I think It will make a great model.  Keep it coming.
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: turtle on December 04, 2014, 04:48:49 PM
Marc - I believe that should read: spectacularly average  ;)

Bill - here's a few spec's of the 1:1:
Modified copy of a French "Sokol" design,
Dimensions - 63.96m x 6.39m (old school = 210' x 21')
Displacement - 350 tons
Machinery - reciprocating (VTE), 2-shafts, 4 x Yarrow (later Normand) boilers IHP - 5600, 26 kts.
Bunkers - 80 tons
Complement - 62/69
It's stated that they had good sea-going capabilities - a couple took part in the 'around the world' voyage to 'Tsushima'.

However that being said about it's sea-going capabilities I'm still thinking I might have to add some anti-roll strakes (removable).

Cheers.   
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Ray Dunakin on December 04, 2014, 05:21:41 PM
Cool. Is this going to be another r/c model?
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: turtle on December 04, 2014, 05:53:55 PM
Hi Ray,
Yep another RC build.
This one is for me, however someone has already put in an offer so  :-\ ::).
Will probably use this as a test-bed for a couple of new techniques - aluminium soldering mainly, but if that fails it might just end up as a plastic-fantastic  :D (weight being the main issue).
An hour and half of blocking and it looks a little bit better  :-\.
To be continued _ _ _ _
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Chuck Doan on December 04, 2014, 07:54:53 PM
Nice project!
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: turtle on December 06, 2014, 11:01:17 PM
Experimental day yesterday and today. Built up a torpedo tube in brass (seem to have altered the camera settings  :(, sorry about the quality) and have just started one in plastic so I can do some weight calculations.
Not the prettiest of soldering jobs but as it may or may not end up in the recycling bin who really cares  :). So a quick peek at the TT (hand wheels are pre-built and from the scrap/parts bin  :-[):

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F009_zps4dd61ced.jpg&hash=92e7cd5026d30d4400e9ea0e96e20741faf9150a)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F010_zps91f0bc79.jpg&hash=94469c95edc5412edec8f6297d1034751d86592e)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F011_zps2ec5c890.jpg&hash=8a8cefbf5aaa5c6c6abc0729dd62e52583786746)

To be continued _ _ _ _

Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: finescalerr on December 07, 2014, 12:32:06 AM
You really do owe us an apology; that must be the most hideously modeled torpedo I've ever seen. Please continue to fabricate subassemblies at such a painfully low level. -- Russ
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: marc_reusser on December 07, 2014, 12:32:53 AM
Simply WOW! That is truly a work of art.

After seeing where this is going, I am definitely binning all my in-progress boat builds.
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: shropshire lad on December 07, 2014, 01:14:21 AM
Quote from: finescalerr on December 07, 2014, 12:32:06 AM
You really do owe us an apology; that must be the most hideously modeled torpedo I've ever seen. Please continue to fabricate subassemblies at such a painfully low level. -- Russ

For once (and only once ) , I am in agreement with Russ , this is a shamefully inadequate piece of work and really shouldn't be allowed to get passed the quality police check . Therefore , if you do consider it worthy of the bin may I suggest you submit the item in question to a member of the sub-committee (not necessarily myself) for assessment .

   If the sub-committee decide that you are justified in binning the aforementioned item then they are under orders to redistribute said item to a worthy member of this Forum to put on their mantelpiece to show lesser mortals what can be done with a few bits of metal and a couple of dollops of solder . If they don't have a mantelpiece then said item will automatically be sent to my house , which does have one . Or it will when I build it .

  This policy has become necessary due to the high incidence of amazing work being discarded willy-nelly into the dustbin by top notch modellers because "it doesn't meet their high and exacting standards" . This has caused great distress amongst us lesser modellers who very often would kill for a cast off from the likes of Chuck , Marc or Russ . In Russ's case I am not necessarily talking about the same sort of model as the other two !

  I hope that I have made the position of the Forum Management very clear and that if you have any doubts please don't hesitate to ask a member of the Management team for clarification .

  Thank you

    Nick , CEO of the Management Team and Chairman of the Quality Sub-Committee .
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: mabloodhound on December 07, 2014, 06:43:22 AM
"Not the prettiest of soldering jobs"

My God, man.   What's not to like?   I can't spot a single soldering defect.
Just looks perfect to me and the details are incredible.
:o
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: 5thwheel on December 07, 2014, 06:48:06 AM
I wish I could solder that badly.
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Hauk on December 07, 2014, 01:50:12 PM
Quote from: turtle on December 06, 2014, 11:01:17 PM
Experimental day yesterday and today. Built up a torpedo tube in brass (seem to have altered the camera settings  :(, sorry about the quality) and have just started one in plastic so I can do some weight calculations.
Not the prettiest of soldering jobs but as it may or may not end up in the recycling bin who really cares  :). So a quick peek at the TT (hand wheels are pre-built and from the scrap/parts bin  :-[):

As others have pointed out, what is wrong with the soldering? Looks perfect to me.

And what have you done to the brass, it looks nickel-plated?

Would love to hear more about how you made this torpedo.
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Mr Potato Head on December 07, 2014, 02:06:10 PM
I'm not sure this is the correct sentiment ??? ??? ???
Bullocks :o :o :o
I'm tired of this thread
I can't look anymore ::) ::) ::)
MPH
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: turtle on December 07, 2014, 06:59:04 PM
 :D :D :D
Cheers guys, but theres a few areas that are a bit crude (inside the well) that can't really be seen in the photo's, but as said it's just an experiment and a bit rushed for my liking i.e. cold soldered where in places it should be silver soldered.
Hauk - it looks nickel-plated due to me messing around with the camera settings (not a smart choice  >:() and the brass itself is a very very low quality (bought at the scrapyard and of unknown origin) and machines totally differently to a quality brass I only use it if the parts are to be painted and for this type of experimenting.
I'll try and remember to do some photo's when I build the proper ones - just messing about seeing if I can incorporate working torpedos  :D - the first couple of experiments resulted in severe tube failure  :o.

Nick - you might not understand this bit of Kiwi humour - it's the Yeah right. -part

Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Ray Dunakin on December 07, 2014, 07:47:45 PM
Marvelous work, and a very cool looking piece of machinery.

Not being a nautical type, the only torpedo tubes I've heard of prior to this are the kind inside submarines. However, this is apparently something that sits on the deck of a ship, correct? How is the torpedo launched from the tube?
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: 1-32 on December 07, 2014, 09:15:41 PM
hi roger .
good new zealand humor but it it is too early for april fool day.
i looked up the company that you quoted for your brass coating it seems that it is a private maritine research company that is more interested in preserving the eco system of the world than metal coating.shame i wanted to use there services.
kind regards kim[on the other side of the ditch]
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: shropshire lad on December 08, 2014, 12:03:48 AM
Quote from: Ray Dunakin on December 07, 2014, 07:47:45 PM
Marvelous work, and a very cool looking piece of machinery.

Not being a nautical type, the only torpedo tubes I've heard of prior to this are the kind inside submarines. However, this is apparently something that sits on the deck of a ship, correct? How is the torpedo launched from the tube?


Surely you must be familiar with Motor Torpedo Boats (MTBs) ? They all had deck mounted torpedo tubes . However , I couldn't tell you how they were launched .

  Here's some info on PT109 who's crew included a quite famous person in later years ! http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Torpedo_Boat_PT-109

Nick
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: turtle on December 08, 2014, 11:37:51 PM
Nick - ya stole the link I was going to use  :D. Another term to look up is 'Whitehead torpedo'.

Ray - Torpedo are fired from the tubes by compressed air, then after a set time the actual torpedo motor kicks in while on it's journey. Very early torpedo boats had them slung to the sides and the motor was started then the torpedo released, and the other method was used by the likes of the Italian MAS, English CMB and Soviet G5 was the motor is started and the torpedo mechanically pushed off the stern with the boat then turned hard over to get out of the way. The Boiki class has three tubes - two aft and one bow tube. Easily seen on the GA's. HTH.

Kim - The Cawthron website only shows a fraction of what they get up to, luckily my neighbor is a technician there so I have the advantage of an insider. The process (still under development and soon to be patented) is a quite closely guarded secret and only due to my neighbor knowing I worked with brass a little bit he offered to use some parts for (unofficial) testing  ;). All I have been told is that the process is similar to that of aluminum anodizing  ???. Sorry I can't be of more help here but can't really ask the neighbor to do any that could jeopardize his position.       
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Design-HSB on December 09, 2014, 02:59:34 AM
Hi Roger,

why not paint the parts in the original colors that would look in my view much more faithfully.
A durable gold-looking coating is achieved by a titanium coating that you may have already seen in drills or cutters.
Quite apart from doing but excellent detail work.
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Barney on December 09, 2014, 02:10:02 PM
"Speech less"
Barney
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Barney on December 09, 2014, 02:14:17 PM
or should it be Iv lost my voice because my mouth won't close - how does this guy do It !!
Barney
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: turtle on December 14, 2014, 06:07:51 PM
Quote from: Design-HSB on December 09, 2014, 02:59:34 AMHi Roger,
why not paint the parts in the original colors that would look in my view much more faithfully.
A durable gold-looking coating is achieved by a titanium coating that you may have already seen in drills or cutters.
Quite apart from doing but excellent detail work.

Hi ya Helmut, for this project it will be painted and weathered as per the original. But between now and then it's going to be a test-bed for some ideas/techniques/materials I've wanted to trial, plus as it will not be entered into any competitions I can do a number of things that the Naviga rules and regulations (and antiquated thinking) do not allow or discourage - weathering/individual prop control/working torpedo's etc.

Barney - Cheers - now you know how we feel when viewing your masterful little creations  ;).

Cheers to all for popping in. Still trying to cause myself harm with the working torpedos - 100psi is definitely excessive and bordering on lethal  :o ;D.

Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: shropshire lad on December 15, 2014, 12:19:58 AM
Quote from: turtle on December 14, 2014, 06:07:51 PM
Quote from: Design-HSB on December 09, 2014, 02:59:34 AMHi Roger,
why not paint the parts in the original colors that would look in my view much more faithfully.
A durable gold-looking coating is achieved by a titanium coating that you may have already seen in drills or cutters.
Quite apart from doing but excellent detail work.

Hi ya Helmut, for this project it will be painted and weathered as per the original. But between now and then it's going to be a test-bed for some ideas/techniques/materials I've wanted to trial, plus as it will not be entered into any competitions I can do a number of things that the Naviga rules and regulations (and antiquated thinking) do not allow or discourage - weathering/individual prop control/working torpedo's etc.

Barney - Cheers - now you know how we feel when viewing your masterful little creations  ;).

Cheers to all for popping in. Still trying to cause myself harm with the working torpedos - 100psi is definitely excessive and bordering on lethal  :o ;D.



What are you using for the explosive in the torpedo ?

  That would cause consternation on the boating pond if a few highly prized masterpieces were mysteriously being sunk without any warning !
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: finescalerr on December 15, 2014, 11:14:21 AM
Perhaps. On the other hand nobody but you would launch them, Captain Nemo! -- Russ
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Chuck Doan on December 15, 2014, 12:00:36 PM
That is gorgeous work Roger! At 100 psi, you won't need explosives on another boat!
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: turtle on December 17, 2014, 01:21:47 AM
Nick - No explosives required, plus nanny state won't allow fun things to be used near the public  :-X, and as Chuck said - at 100psi launching pressure it has a fair amount of inertia behind it. Have finally tracked down some slim-line 60psi capsules (one shot bike tyre fillers) so when they get here the experiments shall restart. Just redesigning the striker for a shorter action.
Chuck - Cheers.
Hopefully I'll get the prop shaft support brackets and redesigned rudder soldered up tomorrow.   
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: marc_reusser on December 17, 2014, 08:33:22 PM
If you're looking at the bike tire inflator CO2 cartridges. There are some miniature/small CO2  "cans"...that are used for inflating mountain bike tires (these need greater volume and less pressure) they are as long as the CO2 cartridges and about twice the diameter....I need to check if I have on in my packs, but I believe they are 40 psi (most mtb riders ride at or below this psi) and they have a screw/threaded end for an adapter...one can use a trigger release fillers on them....meaning when threaded on and sealed properly, you can start and stop the air flow as needed.....I am sure this concept could easily be adapted/modified by someone with your skill and ingenuity, to create a release valve that would allow multiple uses/shots from this container.

Note also that the standard threaded CO2 cartridges do come in lower psi.....and also can be attached to a trigger filler.

If all else fails, what about a simple small can of compressed air such as those sold for airbrushing or cleaning keyboards (I know the airbrush cans have threaded mounts....so maybe in combination with a trigger mechanism, some sort of flow restrict or pressure valve, we'd do the trick.

I know the latter  is a large heavy and clunky option....but just throwing it out there.
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: turtle on December 19, 2014, 05:46:13 AM
Cheers Marc. Yep I've been trialling the 'roadie' 100psi CO2 cartridges (still have a bunch laying around now I'm "retired" from competitive cycling).
In trials I've actually been using the slimline cartridges as the torpedo  :o with a short throw striker at the rear of the torpedo tube. Using my simplistic thought method (K.I.S.S.) combined with being too lazy to build a piping system (and all it's inherent engineering problems) this appears to be simple and workable method.
I have machined off the threaded area so it press fits into an O-ring inside the tube  :P, holds it firmly enough for the striker to do it's job.

Anywho, best I get started on some deck hardware so it can start to look like a "floaty thing".     
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: turtle on January 30, 2015, 04:18:51 PM
Hi all,
Just thought I'd prove I'm not dead (yet)  ;D.
After an enforced lay-up I'm slowly regaining muscle control and coordination again so have managed to do some pottering about on this 'project'. Namely, started marking out the deck GA and roughing up the conning bridge and central deck coaming. Still huge amounts of fairing to do  :(.
Thought I'd chuck it outside to see where any warping will happen in "warm weather" (27 degrees C - 80.6 degree F) so I can ensure the deck/hull locking bolts will be in the right place.
Anywho enough blah blah blah:

(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F012_zpsfsiwdv35.jpg&hash=6327c68b8792784f4563a5d9d2cbcd09c164f34b)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F013_zps2m2ps43l.jpg&hash=f8313eff3578a958955d2dd1c48ab096b004f119)
(https://www.finescalerr.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1075.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw426%2Fturtlesturmoil%2FSea%2FTB%2F014_zpsy0bddvwd.jpg&hash=e6b86c71171953f0e19ad3587f6b682a99b1cf15)

Till next time, cheers for popping in for a looksie.
Regards
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Ray Dunakin on January 30, 2015, 07:06:23 PM
Looks good to me. Welcome back!
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: finescalerr on January 31, 2015, 12:13:12 AM
What laid you up? Are you feeling okay now? -- Russ
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: turtle on January 31, 2015, 05:57:25 PM
Cheers Ray.
Hi ya Russ,
just a bit of medical 'excitement' (had the monopoly on "micro-strokes" for a while  :D).
Slow progress regaining muscle control and coordination but at least modelling is very good therapy for this (but quite frustrating at times  :().
Just doing a couple of quick fun builds in 76th scale purely to spend some time with a paint brush again (definitely out of practise with that discipline  :-[).
Also spending some time pondering how to attach the railway track to the deck  ???, yes I'm building a boat but need some railway track  :D.
Updates will occur sporadically  :-\.
Till then, thanks to all.     
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Ray Dunakin on January 31, 2015, 08:52:52 PM
Best wishes for a speedy recovery!
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Allan G on January 30, 2016, 08:31:31 AM
I hope 2016 brings you good health!  Allan
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: finescalerr on January 30, 2016, 01:26:25 PM
You are under orders from this forum to recover quickly and fully. We will tolerate no excuses or delays in your personal or modeling progress. And, as the others, I hope you already are well on your way to a much better year. -- Russ
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: jim s-w on January 31, 2016, 02:02:32 AM
Sorry to hear of your health issues.

Depending on how the track is attached to the deck can you just use plastic chairs designed for the job? See http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=346_347_348

HTH

Jim
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: TRAINS1941 on January 31, 2016, 05:30:26 AM
Roger good to see you back.  I hope the healing process is quick and a fi=full recovery.

Jerry
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: 1-32 on January 31, 2016, 09:18:50 AM
great start to the project.
cheers kim
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Bill Gill on January 31, 2016, 10:23:23 AM
Glad you're back modeling. Looks good, keep at it!
Title: Re: Boiki Class Destroyer @ 35th
Post by: Hydrostat on January 31, 2016, 10:38:48 AM
At the risk of writing something very incongruous: Roger's last post is from January 2015? Maybe i missed something ...
Anyway: Roger, I hope you're better now and we'll see some more fione modeling of you, soon!

Volker