I have had this picture my pop took lying around for a long time.
Dad took the picture somewhere in the four corners area about 30 years ago while we were on a trip together. I have always thought it was kool and I have been missing my pop alot lately so I thought it would be a good subject.
There are lots of materials to play with and learn about/from.
I am going to try styrene for the wood.
I also have some Yorke brick wall castings to use for the back and sides.
There is the Corr on the porch too.
Doubt I will copy the signage, may be do something along the lines of a photographer (again for pop).
Hopefully I will learn some new tricks................
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-Marty
Well Mj you never cease to amaze me!!
Styrene for wood very interesting, should be a great thread to follow. Well what are you waiting for were's the layout.
I'm sure Dad will be proud!
Jerry
If that's your next project, Marty, be sure to take some progress shots and keep good notes. I plan to do do an article on using styrene for wood; it would be a great sidebar to accompany an article about your model.
Russ
Looks like a fun project, Marty. Those big windows will demand a full interior! Like Unc say, keep a step by step photo record.
-Younger
Looks like fun!
Thanks guys!
Younger I figure I will base it on one of Kinsey's shops with some of dads photos in the window, I think Phoenix has a photographer figure too.
Well I started on the project.
First was to mock up what i have vs. what I want.
Looks like the Grandt line doors will work with minor modifications.
They are the "factory doors" #3612
Then I started mocking up the front facade.
I need to run by the LHS and (hopefully) get the styrene sizes I need.
Their selection really sucks....
-Mj
Well in just a few nights I have the front wall basic structure assembled.
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Still have lots of mullions to add ???
I pre grained the styrene for some small grain.
Guess I better start the coloring experiments ???
-Marty
Marty, contact me by e-mail if you want my folder on styrene-to-wood techniques. I've been storing stuff for an article. -- Russ
-Mj
I see progress this is going to be a very interesting build. What did you use to give it the grain effect?
Jerry
What did you use to give it the grain effect?
Started with various emery boards and did some touch up with a fiberglass scratch brush.
Thanks,
Mj
Got the false front done.
Actually did it twice, clapboards are on the back - didnt like 'em.
Used the mill to cut the slots for the porch rafters.
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-Marty
Marty,
Looking good. Will you be using the rest of the Yorke Lakeside Grocery walls?
Frank
I have run the original photo through Photoshop Elements, to bring out more of the original colors:
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Another try. If it does not work, here is a link to my photo:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3288/2970447633_8aa9851c9a_o.jpg
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Frank, the short answer on the walls is "yes" but with some modifications.
lenelg Thanks!!! That really helps! Now that basic construction is done i have been thinking of color. The building next to this one is already white so looking at the general store i am now definitely thinking brown/red to go with the bricks.
Thanks a bunch!
-Marty
I played around with an extra brick wall casting to try some new techniques.
Any comments or suggestions?
There are no old brick walls here in Fl for me to inspect.
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Thanks
-Marty
Marty
Some nice progress going on there. The front is looking good can't wait to see how it looks with the glass windows.
Don't know that much about brick but I think when I look at brick up here it could be a more orange/red but I guess that depends on where the brick was made. And maybe the picture isn't showing it as the real color, that you have.
Jerry
Try Flickr, search for "GRoups" or "tags". Try brick, old brick, brick walls, etc.
Marty,
I have issues with the darkness and coloring of the brick.
Much of what irks me I think is the clash between the dark color, and the character of the brick wall (the TY style of dillapidation).....speaking purely generally and from my experience & observation in regards to this type of structure (I am sure there are images out there to contradict me)....to get this amount of dillapidation and wear on a brick wall, the brick would tend to be of a more poreous and "softer" consitancy...as this would allow it to "crumble" and "errode" in the manner replicated......these types of bricks tend to be of a lighter coloration.....sort of like the one image Russ's on TNGS. ....and Before I get completely hammered here......Yes, color is in large part due to the type of clay that was used to make the brick.....but in this same vein...certain clays are far more porus and brittle than others.....and...depending on how a brick is fired, will also affect its color, and structural integrity/quality.
There are loads of "brick painting recipies" out there.......and I have one from a military modeling mag...if you want, I can scan it and send it to you.
Marc
I agree with your assessment of the softer brick Marc. Usually referred to as Slamon (most frequently bastardized into 'Salmon') brick it is unfired and usually used as a filler or interior brick but quite often because of it's lower cost is mistakenly used outside. Typically a very bright orange in color.
Okay guys first off thanks.
I was fishing for comments, I wasn't crazy about the color and the appearance is somewhat subjective. I wasn't sure what to do, so I asked.
I do agree it needs to be more orange.
I am not structural expert, and have no desire to build all new walls, I'd like to learn /improve my brick coloring build the building and move on.
Anyway.....
I added some powders, painted in some "burnt" ones and photographed it in better light.
What now?
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a close up (disregard the "holes", its an extra)
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It's much better...maybe some semi transparent beige-orangish washes on areas/briks.
But now what bugs me is the sheen :-\.....is it just the photography......or do they actually have that sheen? For the condition of the bricks and type/era of the building, these things need to be DEAD flat.
(Shame...Shame.....you sealed with dullcoat didn't you ;) ;D ;D )
Marc
Yes there is a sheen.
It was there before I sealed it with MATTE ACRYLIC!
I think the bricks should look more "powdery"
I used cheapo art acrylics, I guess I am going to have to use vallejo for everything?
I may try another using a paste made from powders?
Any suggestions on paint to use? may be I should have thinned and washed the color on?
At least i am making progress and learning!
Thanks master!
-Mj
Funny guy :P...don't go calling me me master, I stink at doing bricks.......but am never lacking for an opinion. ;D ;D ;D ;D
I'll see if I can dig up that article.
Marc
Here a site with some potential reference. http://www.cgtextures.com/ (http://www.cgtextures.com/)
Click on bricks and a lot of samples open, click on a sample and more variants are shown.
Similar for cloud - or other backgrounds.
Jacq
Marty ,
Marty ,
If the wall is hydrocal you can either go the "Lane Stewart" route or the "Randy Pepprock" route . If the wall is resin ... shame on you!
Nick
Err...which "route" or what methods did you use, Nick ol' boy.
Marc
Lane Stewart , of course. I never seal the plaster walls before painting . I use artist's watercolours, as Lane describes in the articles he did in the Gazette in the early Nineties.Are you familiar with them ? If not we'll have to do something about that .
The Randy Pepprock way partly seals the plaster first and and uses acrylics to colour them .
Neither way is "better" than the other, it is down to preference.
Nick
Thanks Lad,
I never seal my PLASTER castings.
I think where i went wrong on the test one is too much, too thick, too poor paint.
I am going to try again, using different paint, technique, alcohol.
Marc, i would appreciate seeing the info on the technique you mentioned, after all I am trying to learn/use new ideas.
Thanks! Oh and ditto what Nick said, no chains no prize!
-Marty
Seal plaster before painting? HORRORS! I tried Randy Pepprock's method years ago when he sent me a kit sample to review. I managed to come up with something somewhat acceptable after hours of work. I think the results would have been much better had I NOT first primed the plaster.
By contrast, when I wanted to color a cast resin stone wall, I came up with the idea of first coating it with white acrylic indoor house paint because I noticed the paint produced a color and texture similar to plaster. I applied two or three coats and let them dry for a couple of days. Then I brushed on an India ink/alcohol wash. When that was dry I brushed the casting with a very dilute wash of Polly S acrylic paint. The result was outstanding. The paint seemed to soak up the stain as plaster might and the coloring process was quick, accurate, and controllable.
Maybe one of you guys will try it and report back. I'd be curious to see if it works for everyone.
Russ
Okay, it has taken several days but I have progress to report.
I redid the bricks the way I should have done them the first time;
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The motor has been added but no further weathering as of yet. Still need to put in some burnt bricks too.
The front wall is assembled;
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And the first attempts at painting styrene to look like wood;
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I think I am on the right track, have not used any powders or ink, just a base of solvent paint and oils, yes real oils, I looked at the waterbased oils but opted for the real ones as I already had a couple of tubes.
Okay, so what do you all think?
Marty running for cover..
Marty,
very couragious, but you don't need to run.
Outstanding effort, I have a long way to go to get styrene to look like your lumber.
Jacq
Marty,
The brick looks much better. The styrene coloring looks great. How about a little how to on what you did.
Frank
Mj
Brick is much better with a little weathering I think you'll have just what your looking for.
The wood (styrene) is looking extremely well done. Kind of lean toward the reddish look of the lumber.
Very nice indeed, but one would expect that from you.
Jerry
Marty,
Very nice job on the lumber. Would also be interested in how you acheived it.
Here is a little trick for working with oils, that may help keep some of the sheen away.
Before using the oil paint, place a dab of the paint you plan to use on some cardboard/chipboard (like the kind used for the back of writing pads), and let it sit there for a bit, so as to allow some of the Linseed oil to leech/get sucked out of it. Then use that dollop for your project/work.
Marc
I too would like to know how you did the wood. I'm trying to do the floor of a plastic gondola and right now it looks like excrement. I need a class in painting plastic to look like wood 101.
John
Way to go, Marty, with both the brick and the styrene wood. Both need a little final finish but you are very close already. The step-by-step "clinic" on the styrene wood would make a great feature for publication. -- Russ
What everyone else said. That's some of the nicest styrene wood I've seen (way, way better than my crappy efforts). It'd be great if you could give a few more details.
Marty,
The styrene treatment has come up better looking than timber, how ironic. I really like the aged look of the far left piece, but each colour variation you have certainly has its own place depending on level of exposure to the elements. The darken start of rot in the knots is a very nice look. I guess if you do a "how to" for the rest of the mob, I'd be interested in hearing about your efforts as well.
Dan
Geese guys, I didnt thin it looked "up to spec" guess you never know.
The short boards were painted with "earth" floquil, the long ones were done with a basic gray.
All the boards were pre-grained with a wire pencil.
I used black, white, raw sienna, burnt and raw umber, a 18/0 brush and also a 1/4" wide brush, both were red sable.
Using the colors and making a mixture of various grays I streaked the boards.
I did use the color blobs like Marc indicated, not because I knew though...
Then using the wide brush dry I blended the colors.
The knots were done with a "dot" of black or burnt umber and then (very lightly with the wide brush)
streaking them up and down to resemble a real knot.
The dark stains were done by painting on black at the ends and dry streaking the color up.
I still think they need more work, and some powders but due to the overall praise I am encouraged to continue.
Any more questions please ask, thats why I'm here doing this.
Thanks!
-Marty
I think it looks very promising! Looks like a good way to do grain patterns that would be virtually impossible on real wood.
Did your advice on painting plastic to look like wood. I painted my gondola Floquil Earth and have streaked it primarily with white and burnt umber. Looks much better than my previous attempts. Not as good as yours, but much better than it did.
John
Quote from: lab-dad on November 06, 2008, 07:27:17 AM
I used black, white, raw sienna, burnt and raw umber, a 18/0 brush and also a 1/4" wide brush, both were red sable.
Using the colors and making a mixture of various grays I streaked the boards.
I did use the color blobs like Marc indicated, not because I knew though...
Then using the wide brush dry I blended the colors.
The knots were done with a "dot" of black or burnt umber and then (very lightly with the wide brush)
streaking them up and down to resemble a real knot.
The dark stains were done by painting on black at the ends and dry streaking the color up.
I still think they need more work, and some powders but due to the overall praise I am encouraged to continue.
Any more questions please ask, thats why I'm here doing this.
I am very impressed by your results!
By the way, did you use the oil paint full strength?
Best regards,
Håvard H
Yea! John, glad it worked for you.
How about a picture or two?
Yes Hauk, no additional oil, and I let the paint sit a bit and worked from the thicker areas, but only picked up a tiny bit of paint.
-Marty
Well the front wall is assembled.
In preparation of painting with the oils I airbrushed some enamels.
I used a raw sienna and a burnt umber.
Originally I was just gonna shoot the color and move on, but after seeing Marc's "color modulation" I thought I'd try some too.
Now, realize I have no idea what I'm doing here, but I "thought" that I could use the somewhat transparent and layering effects of the oils to my advantage........
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I darkened the back, figuring it would have received little or no protection by paint.
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-Marty
-MJ
Is this the point were you do the magic with the oils to make it look like real wood?
Or are you going to use another base color before going on?
So far far it looks like your learning experence is right on the money.
Excellent job on explaining on how your getting to the final project.
Jerry
Marty,
Looking good. I like the idea of trying out the modulation on a wood structure, and am really looking forward to your wood technique.
This might be of use/interest as far as the midulation goes. It is a dio/building front project by a Spanish modeler (Antonio) over on the MIG Forum. It may be more extreme shading than is good/practical for your project...(and he may have done this to show fading rather than modulation...don't know) but of particiular interest is how he treated each panel and stile & rail section individually.
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Marc
Thanks Marc!
Glad you think I'm on the right track.
I wished I had more time on the base coloring, I would have liked to a better job.
The reference pic you posted looks a little overdone to my eye, but there are points worth noting.
Hopefully this weekend I can start with the oils.
I'm going to start on the back <grin>
-Marty
Wood grain added with oils.
Then varying Chucks peeling paint technique....I used odorless thinner instead of turp.
I had to wait a lot longer, but it went well.
Here is the result on the back of the false front;
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Here is the front woodgrained;
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And two of the doors;
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looks like I have some clean up on the interior door...[banghead]
-marty
-MJ
Very nice I like the coloring are you going to make the front above the awning more weathered or leave it the way it is?
When you Chuck's do you mean the way he did the Barn diorama?
Jerry
The front gets a peeling paint job too.
Not as weathered and worn as the back.
Its actually done so I will hopefully post a pic soon.
The area above the awning will be weathered more than below.
The peeling paint method is Chuck Doan's patented method.
-Marty
Front with its first coats of paint;
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The dark areas (wood color) will be green once I get some.
Side with a sign
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-Marty
Lab-dad
As you requested, I finally got a chance to take some pictures of my first try using your techniques. To make it more interesting, while the plastic car was apart, I measured it and have started a real wood model of the same thing. I'm posting pictures of both for comparison.
First the plastic
Then the wood. Do understand that both of these are 'in process' so have much more work to do.
Then the plastic
Then the wood
and the plastic
Then the wood. I might do a separate posting as I progress on the wood one if you guys are interested.
Well done!
Looking at the coloring I find it hard to tell the difference in the two.
The painted one needs a couple of knots!
Looks like you have nailed it, just need to work on the glue stains <grin>
I find if I do all my coloring (of wood) before assembly and then use the glue sparingly I have better results. A stiff brush, slightly moistened will "wipe" away a lot of the squeeze out or a flat exacto blade helps remove the glue too.
Thanks for sharing, I hope you do post more info.
As a side note I am finding "new wood" to be a real pain in the neck.
Just cant seem to find the right colors.
I think I'll stick to wood for that and use the painted for old wood.
Painted new wood is also easier, its just that unpainted wood......
-Marty
Nice job John. Coloring is great. Yes do some more posts of the comparison.
Jerry
Thank you guys for your kind words. Marty; I would really appreciate you describing in detail how you paint knot holes. I agree the plastic version needs them. Remember this is my first try so am wandering in the dark. On the real wood knot holes, I've tried painting beforehand with limited success. These are real knotholes, that is, twigs that are glued in the holes and trimmed. Cutting them off and sanding the surface makes it difficult to maintain the colored surfaces. What I've done here is to glue from only one side with CA. It has been heavily sanded but still limits the Silverwood penetration. So......I put the limited side underneath where it will eventually be covered with details, weathering, mud and stuff and on the outer portion of the sides where they will be painted.
John
Hey John,
Here is how I do knots;
Put a thick "dot" of raw umber or even black on the spot.
Then take a very dry, very soft, old brush and gently wipe in one direction, but not too hard, then go in the other direction. If you make the knot to light or it disappears repeat.
On the real ones maybe try getting them flush first(tape on one side?) stain, then glue.?.
-Marty
Marty,
I'll try your knot hole painting on the plastic version when I get across the street Monday. Thank you very much. On the real wood one, here is a shot of a real wood gondola where I stained the wood before gluing in the knotholes. Since we are graining the wood to get a more weathered effect and we want the graining to go around the holes, I think the best way may be to drill the holes, do the graining, then stain the wood and lastly to glue in the knots. Those can then be trimmed, glued, lightly sanded and finally retouched. I used CA which is probably a bad choice as it wicks so much that it seals a lot of surrounding wood. Maybe you have a better choice?
These are very new techniques for me so I'm in a steep learning curve. I know my next attempt will incorporate a few different steps than this present project.
Sorry that the knots in the gondola far side don't show well but when I took that picture, I was focusing on the outside.
John
John, what about just "press fit" the knots?
Use a tapered end and jam them in, if one falls out, no biggie, it happens to the real wood.
Keep at it, your doing better than I!
May be I can post of pic of the building here soon <grin>
-Marty
Some progress....
Color is a little off, the sun was setting on another beautiful day in Southern Florida.
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IMPORTANT!
What is the opinion of ya'll on the color of the front doors? (they are unpainted right now)
Do I do them green like the lower panels or white?
Thanks for the input.
-Marty
-MJ
I'm a green guy anyway! So I would say green to set the white off around them.
Jerry
I kinda like the wood.
The building is shaping up well.
John
Marty,
can I place an order ;D ;D Looks very good.
Jacq
Marty, looks very good. I like too much the scribbed wood (er... styrene). Very helpful to me.
Thanks for sharing!!!
Lucas
More progress.
The glass is all in, doors on (even a doorknob!) and an awning.
I am going to weather the awning some, the fading was done in the pooter before printing.
-Marty
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Great effects on everything Marty. Will you be doing something more to the concrete apron out front?
Marty,
A nice project. Very cohesive and complimentary in appearance, finish and weathering.
I like your fading on the striped awning, and think once you do the final weathering/staining on it, it will be perfect.
Marc
Marty, are you "cheating" by using a computer to print artwork on paper? That disqualifies your entire model!! -- Russ
-MJ
First this then the garage must have been day behind the camera.
Excellent job the awning came out really nice and I think Marc is right with a little weathering we will be talking perfection. But I expected that anyway. Beautiful job.
Jerry
I'm done.
Time to move on.
I'm sure I will tweak some things as they bug me more, but for now that's it.
Also going to integrate it into the layout and build a step with some stairs for the back door.
-Marty
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Not bad, young Martin, not bad. -- Russ
Looks ready to occupy! Nice, I like how the bricks came out, and the awning dirt.
-MJ
Like the brick work coloring is perfect. Nice weathering on the awning. Hope you post a picture after you put it on the layout so we can see it blended in with screnery.
Jerry
Nicely done Marty... Subtlety of the coloring is excellent.
Paul
I like very much the brick and coloring effect! ;)
Marty, magnificient.....
Jacq
I really like the pooled water/dirt effect you created on the top of the awning...very realistic/true to prototype....how did you create this?
Overall, nicely done. I like the wood finish/weathiring on all the parts around the windows/doors and the store front.
But being the critical ass that I am......A couple of things sort of bug me/stand out though:
The roof appears too black/dark and evenly finished, and the detailing at the edges...how it transitions to/finishes at the walls is too Tom Yorke-ish..and lacks reality (and it seem s to be one piec rather than individual strips). I don't care for the seams between the castings at the rear...I wish these had been filled with hydrocal and re-carved, also the brick color at those edges, and at the interior along the roof is too solid and harsh...it should be more like your other very nicely done brick finsh. lastly....I am confounded by the reason for the "clean-out" at the very bottom of the rain-water leader.
Nice photos BTW.
Marc
Marty, really nice "general" model :D
Leon
Thanks Marc,
Now I can get on with things.
A project is never done until I have your feedback.
The stains on the awning were done with powders and a narrow brush, I just applied them where I wanted them, slowly building the colors
The roof is tarpaper, strips, just doesnt show up well. ;D ;D ;D ;D
It needed to be removable so thats why the paper extends up at all the edges, no one will ever see it.
The brick is just what is is 'cause I am bored with the project! tired of working on it, once it's on the layout no one will ever see the back again.
The clean out is there because debris will always be on a roof, should the pipe clog, now there is a way to open the end and clean it!
(made sense to me!) ???
I'm surprised though. You missed a couple things;
Hardware for the stovepipe brackets?
No "cap" on the stovepipe either?
You slipping buddy, too much time at the seashore :'( :'(
Seriously though, thanks for the honest input, you know I value & appreciate it.
Thanks to everyone for the comments!
-Marty
Very nice to see it almost finish!! Now, you have to occupy teh building...
Cheers
Lucas