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As I'm new here I thought I'd outline the magnum opus.

Rewanui was a branchline terminus serving local coal mines.  The area had no road access and was in an extremely tight valley.  The line was so steep that a Fell centre rail was used to assist in braking descending trains, and the trains were short.  New Zealand railways are 3'6" gauge and the model is 1:64 on 16.5mm gauge track.

I've been working on this, to a greater or lesser extent, for around 30 years.  However I take the view that, much like cooking dinner, I want everything to be ready at the same time.  So many things have been developed to a proving stage, completed but not painted, kits produced but not assembled and so on.  Fortunately the very first model still stacks up well with the current stuff. As I've developed kits for all the locomotives, rolling stock and castings/etchings/prints for almost every detail including figures, plants, track, couplers, wheels, building details and so on, it has taken a lot of time.  Very little on the finished layout will have been purchased as a model or 3rd party kit.  It's all scratchbuilt or assembled from my own kits. This DIY approach is partly driven by a lack of available models (to the standard that I want), but mainly by personal preference.  On the plus side original drawings for almost everything are available. 

The layout is extremely modest, being just the station yard, a short length of scenic track and the backshunt bridge.  This is indicated by the red rectangles on the attached drawing. The idea is that empty trains will arrive at the station and be shunted to the off stage coal bins.  Full wagons will be shunted back, marshalled and full trains will descend.   A fiddle yard allows the full and empty rakes to be exchanged out of view. Despite the small size there is a lot of detail around the station buildings that should be full of character.  And it was a busy place, often with 2 locomotives present and many short trains arriving and departing on a typical day.

I try to model to a high standard of realism, but I'm cognisant that a) models need to be robust on a model railway and b) individual models are part of the greater whole.  Therefore I'm not above leaving things out that are realistically never going to be seen.

Right now the layout is mainly bare boards with only one section being actively sceniked.  The current thrust is to get the 10 or so passenger cars and a couple of vans (cabooses) completed. The first of these is attached, but as it is a kit 2 similar (though visually different) cars are nearly done too.

The line (but not the terminus) features in a period news reel here: https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/coal-from-westland-1943 (4:48 - 6:00)

If there is interest I'll try to post some catch up on the state of play on the various elements.  After that is done I guess I'll slow down to the occasional update.

Please "post some catch up on the state of play." -- Russ

Quote from: finescalerr on February 08, 2021, 08:52:48 PM
Please "post some catch up on the state of play." -- Russ

Yes, please do!

I enjoyed the old newsreel. Looks like a really great subject to model!

Since the guv'nor requires...

The start of my journey was We377. 

NZR's B class 4-8-0 tender locos were built in their own workshops and by Sharp Stewart in Scotland.  The 4 Scottish examples had a long coupled wheelbase that was problematic on early colonial track.  This problem was partly solved by converting two of the class to We class 4-6-4 tank locos in 1902 (and a third in 1943!).  One of the tender bogies was modified to become the trailing truck. In 1940 (the setting for my railway) both We locomotives exclusively worked on the Rewanui incline. So I needed a model of at least one, and for such a restricted class there was no kit in sight.

I'm not sure when I started this loco, but I was a student, so that makes it at least 30 years ago. By that stage I'd done plastic kits and a bit of scratch-building in other scales, but I was pretty new to modelling NZ railways, brass and 1:64.  Fortunately I had a few mentors. The model remains as in the photo attached.  It is largely finished and I remain very happy with it.  I've made a conscious decision to finish it without upgrading it to modern standards for the most part.  The brass here is cut by hand from sheet or turned from bar.  The tanks are brass shim with a solid core of that brown electrical composite that goes by various names. There are some commercial castings for standard parts, and a few of my very first castings from hand made patterns.  The tank fillers are from 3d prints as I never really got these sorted back in the day.  Wheels are the third or fourth set fitted.  The first set were castings I had from another scratchbuilder that didn't really satisfy. One set were hand made, but using info for another member of the class that it turns out has different counterweights.  At some stage I've adopted scale wheels over RP25, and thus the current set was printed and cast.  Rods were milled.  The front truck never worked and it took me years to discover the axles were not 2mm as I'd thought, but 2.03mm.  As the photo shows, this has been rebuilt.  There are plenty of mistakes in this loco that I'm well aware of but others less familiar with the prototype will overlook. In many ways the little errors, and my attempts to fix them, are what makes this loco so special to me.  Bits of it span my whole serious modelling career, so, while I could etch and 3d print something better it wouldn't be the same.  Of course I could still do We376 that way.

So as with much of my modelling, 377 still needs to be finished (It does have a cab roof and interior, but these must have been elsewhere when I took the pic).  It's all part of a larger plan since, had I finished the loco years ago, fitting DCC and bringing it up to standard would have been problematic.  In it's current state it will be relatively easy to finish it to blend in with everything else.

I'm not sure who took the image of the prototype in 1937, but it is labelled Stan Rockcliff collection.

Welcome - Very nice stuff with excellent detail and interesting Website
Barney

Very nice work so far!

Looks great!

Hi Lawrence.
Great to have another modeller from across the ditch along.
cheers.

This is going to be a quite inzeresting thread!

Thanks to all for the encouragement and comments.

Around the time I started We377 I also scatchbuilt a 30' guard's van (caboose) from styrene with balsa roof, and commercial cast bogies.  This model has been a bit damaged over the 30 or so years since and I need at least two, so when I revisited the subject last year I decided to do it as a kitset using printing, etching and casting.  The model here is the pilot, and some minor improvements have been made since.

I'm in two minds about printed models.  On the one hand they are detailed and quick to make.  On the other there are compromises I'm not entirely happy about.  That's true of any medium, but I still like metal best. A really big plus is that I can build stock so much faster than before that the enjoment factor and probability of completion has increased immeasurably. Not that I'm impatient, but spending weeks on one wagon is fine. Getting motivated to repeat the process for a dozen siblings is more difficult, remembering that these individual models are just small components of a larger whole.

The photos are a bit cruel, especially showing some gaps at roofline and between the body/undeframe.  The model screws together and can be disassembled for detailing, which is why I have not filled these gaps.  In addition they are far less obvious at real size 1:64.  I'm learning a lot about aging from the forum, and my weathering could use some work.  However these vehicles would have been grubby, but otherwise maintained quite well, so extensive peeling paint is not the finish needed here.  As I noted in the title post my plan is not to finish components one at a time but to get everything to come together at the end.  I'll revisit weathering of all the stock to make sure there is a degree of homogeneity and as my skills improve.

Using the printer for this introduces some interesting conundrums and the design of parts to minimise print artifacts is key.  There is also a need to accept some compromise as printing allows fanastic detail that I probably could not do otherwise, but some large flat areas do show some layering.

The van body is 1 piece.  Side doors are separate and can be opened.  The numberplates are etched, but other plates (load/postal) are printed in place.  Bogies are all resin prints and the spring detail is nice and open.  I've since revised these with an etched subframe for a bit more strength.  The footsteps here are styrene, but it tends to move a lot with temperature change so I'll replace it with metal or wood at some point and for future models.  As I always do, windows are designed with slots and recesses to take the glazing.  The end doors have slots.  The lookouts have a recess that allows the one piece glazing to be scored, folded and clipped into place.  Protective bars over the windows are etched brass.  The roof is in two pieces dowelled together, glued and filled.  This enables optimal print orientation so that the verandah can be detailed underneath.  The various ventilators are added separately to allow the roof to be sanded smooth.


There is a fuller description of the van on my blog: https://nzfinescale.com/the-back-end/

Lawrence, I think the reason may be that you linked photos from another website instead of uploading individual original jpegs. When I open your images in a new tab they show up there so apparently the our two websites are having a little digital spat.

I've written this a dozen times and most of the guys now understand why: You must upload individual jpegs of not more than 230 kilobytes, even if that means using a separate post for each. No post can contain more than 230 kb. The problem with linked images is what you've encountered. Eventually, in nearly every instance, the links break and the entire thread then becomes useless. Our software is old and relatively crude, we can't replace it without losing everything, and we all suffer from its limitations. It is such a problem that a sticky exists to explain how to resize images to deal with the software's exasperating limitations.

Now aren't you even more delighted than ever that you asked to join us?

Russ

Yep, web site spat sums it up.  I can embed Volker's images, but not mine even though they show up fine in the debugging window.

The advantage of embedding images from my site is that I can post here in 10 minutes, rather than sitting down to rework all of the images.  While I get the underlying issues that doesn't change the fact this barrier is going to reduce the number and extent of posts I can find time to make.

For those with Photoshop (Elements, and probably other software too), there is a 'process multiple file' tool that allows you to resize, adjust res to 72dpi, adjust compression etc., saving copies of the modified files to a location you choose.  In other words prep your images for this forum in a single step for all images.  Not ideal, but it does reduce the work needed a LOT.

Lawrence

Beautiful!

One of the challenges to the finescale modeller in smaller scales is undoubtedly weathered timber.

Chuck Doan et al. set a high standard here, which had left me a little dissatisfied with some of my own attempts at old wood.

Over the last few days I've been playing with a solution.  The illustration here shows progress.  The effect was achieved in just a few minutes and there is certainly a lot more I can and will do in terms of distressed paint colour variation and so on.  But that's just finishing, the hard bit is sorted.  It is part of a larger model that I can now progress.

The full story is at: https://nzfinescale.com/going-with-the-grain/ (https://nzfinescale.com/going-with-the-grain/) . As I work up the model I'll post updates.

Lawrence

That is very effective for 3D printed wood and an interesting approach that I wondered if anyone had experimented with in the smaller scales. You mention on your site that you are using Blender which can be an excellent choice, primarily because it's open source and free, thus not requiring a huge financial investment for the software, though as with any 3d modelling application, the more powerful your multi-core CPU and GPU the better, which requires an often significant investment in hardware. Concerning the photographic textures you used, did you prepare your own normal maps? Size and resolution of the photographic image is also important as you want to avoid tiling, an important consideration when searching for photos on the internet. Generating and flattening the UVs required so the texture maps properly on the model can also be something of a challenge. Am I correct in understanding that Blender has the ability to do that in a fairly simplified process, at least in comparison to 3dsMax, Maya, Modo, Rizom, etc? Though not impossible, it is important to note that this process is much more complex to accomplish with a model created by a 3D CAD application. The CAD model has to be imported into one of the 3d modelling applications, then retopologized (generally into quads) in order to be able to generate the correct UVs so the texture will map correctly on the model. All in all, it's an interesting approach and I'm looking forward to seeing what more you can do with it. Also, check our Megascans... they have a lot of excellent textured surfaces, though, not having any experience with Blender, I don't know if there are any compatibility issues.

Hi Paul

I'm no Blender expert and my PC is into it's second decade and not particularly whizz to start with.  I would say the coal stage is about the limit before I'd need to start looking for workarounds on processor etc.  The print software starts to choke on stls over 0.5GB too.  Up to that I'm fairly cavalier on poly count, but near that level I need to start being a bit more efficient.  On the other hand such limits are on parts not final models, so not all that limiting in practice.  The coal stage is in 2 printed parts.

In terms of the texturing I was relatively crude. There's not a lot of point in generating a digital model that is better than the printer's output resolution. A member 50mm long is 1000 printed pixels. 50mm is over 10' in 1:64 so it wasn't hard to find images of planks at sufficient resolution online. I used two pics, one of which is shown (I did convert to gray scale and tweak levels in photoshop) [update: not shown as it is 370kb :-(].  The mid grey area was added as a place to park bits of the uv map that I didn't want textured. For larger scales, you might want a bit more resolution, although you start running out of print bed.  I'd be trying to avoid repeats for wood grain.

CAD to Blender is problematic.  Choices seem to be DXF (giving vertices and edges only) or stl.

So yes, there is a bit of retopology.  However timber structures are often quite simple (this one sure is) and since most elements are simply a stretched cube I mainly just redrew and copied (the uv mapping needs redoing for each unique element though).  I also cheated a lot with repeats, untextured backsides etc.  This was more than laziness as it is a bit slow and there is a need to keep the file size down.

Blender has very different controls and workflows to a CAD package and is a steep learning curve (for me anyway).  The UV unwrap/map process is very straightforward once you know how though and pretty quick with the right workflow.

Megascans looks nice.  As a means to do brick and stone, could be quite exciting.

Lawrence:

Yes, it's amazing how quickly polys can accumulate, especially when retopologizing. Since you're basically only working with elongated cubes and flat panels, creating UVs is a simple process. As soon as you get into more organic or complex mechanical forms, it becomes something else indeed. As you say, it's definitely an advantage that you are working in small output sizes, governed both by scale and your printer. File size can quickly become an issue. A couple of my more complex rendering and animation projects had over one million polys, file size over 1gb, which even with the liquid-cooled 32 core machine, caused it to chug and complain on occasion. Megascans is a great resource. I used them quite a bit, especially when creating weathered surfaces in renders. They have an excellent range of brick, stonework, and concrete textures, most available in a range of LOD.  Would be interesting to see if any of those worked in a 3D printing workflow.

Paul

It's tempting to try some stone or brick for the hell of it, but I'm trying to focus.  My learning curve on this was a Napoleonic battle standard.  These were heavily embroidered, which I copied from a museum image and used to texture a draped flag, then printed.  VERY effective, but how my customer painted it I have no idea  ;).  Of course a plane is the simplest possible model.

As it is generally useful to break down models for both printing and painting the size issue almost takes care of itself.

The next step is to finish the vat and coal stage models.  Thereafter I may try this on a wooden wagon as I have the base model already as well as the need to do them in 1:64, 1:48 and 1:33.

Interesting approach!

Inspired by Volker's valves and the generally high standard shown here, I've tried to up my game.

Here's a progress shot of the 6000 gal vat for Rewanui.  This was government railway (albeit a long way from head office) and in the 1940 period maintenance would have been quite good.  So I've aimed for work-stained, but well maintained.

This is basically a number of 3D prints with some real timber/ply and brass/styrene.

The vat (with hoop tensioners) is 1 piece (a hollow tube).  Other separate parts are the tank base and the transverse/longitudinal tank support timbers.  The entire support structure is 1 piece (verticals, bracing, fitting, concrete and the short ladder).  All this was done in CAD.  The hose was modelled in Blender using a fabric simulation draped over the CAD model. There's a clamp holding it onto the spigot.

The vat hoops are 0.3mm monofilament fishing line. They sit into shallow recesses printed around the vat.  Very easy to get tight, square hoops this way, and they don't look 'moulded on'.

Pipework is brass tube over brass wire.  The 3d printed valves and fittings are also threaded onto the wire giving a surprisingly robust construction. (Handles on the valves are 1.6mm diameter).

The gauge is printed - the graduations are done as 0.1mm recesses and filled with a wash during painting.  The wire to the indicator runs over a little wheel at the top and is 0.15mm nylon (invisible thread) blackened with a marker pen.

Still to go are the ladder, operating gear, 'water', a cover for the drain and the float valve assembly.  The ground will eventually cover most of the concrete foundations, hence the ragged look.  I used talc in the paint to provide texture on the concrete, but fear I overdid it.  As this will be largely hidden I'll probably just resolve to do better next time.

The vat is based is based on the standard drawing that would have been supplied as part of the contract, supplemented with photos as the thing was 30+ years old as modelled.  Of course some of the smaller details (particularly at the top and inside) are interpolated as information is incomplete. 

Enjoy

Quote from: Lawrence@NZFinescale on April 13, 2021, 01:56:03 PM
Inspired by Volker's valves and the generally high standard shown here, I've tried to up my game.

This sums up the value of this forum quite nicely.
Your water tank inspires me to up my game!

What I'll never understand is how many people find the modeling on this forum intimidating. Should I conclude, then, that such guys also never look at a beautiful girl? Very confusing. -- Russ

Hi Lawrence.
That is a lovely model very well painted but the water spout is what really got my attention.
cheers Kim

Quote from: 1-32 on April 14, 2021, 12:24:36 PM
Hi Lawrence.
That is a lovely model very well painted but the water spout is what really got my attention.
cheers Kim

Thanks Kim

The hose is very easy to do with software.  Learning the software not so easy.  It is done in Blender using animation tools. I'm no expert at this but I can get it to work eventually.

1. Import (from the CAD model) the elements of the vat that the hose needs to interact with (ie the spigot, horizontal beam and platform edge).
2. Create the hose as a horizontal tube attached to the spigot.
3. Assign the properties of a stiff material to the 'hose' and set the interactions with the other parts (ie pin the hose to the spigot and make it collide with the platform edge and beam)
4. Simulate - The hose behaves more or less as a real world hose would, staying attached to the spigot and falling under 'gravity' to drape and fold over the obstacles.
5. Tweak - adjusting all the parameters above to get the effect you want takes time and the simulation is not that fast either.
6.  Once happy 'bake' the result, add a clamp and join hose, clamp and spigot into a part for printing.

It is amazing what can be achieved with software like this and really neat to be able to print the results.  I recently played with a 7mm tent for a fellow lurker here. However, it is a different hobby (or aspect anyway).  I enjoy it, and particularly the way I can connect the virtual to the real to create something special in the space between them.  If you don't enjoy time at the keyboard I wouldn't recommend it.  If you do it opens some doors to things that would be very difficult to do any other way.

yes, the seam on the pipe is special.

Quote from: 1-32 on April 14, 2021, 02:14:22 PM
yes, the seam on the pipe is special.

Thanks.  Things like the seam are little tweaks that are super easy to add into the digital model.

Appreciating models is a little like theatre - you have to suspend your disbelief a bit.  It follows from that that the more consistent the model is the easier that is to do and that how convincing the model is overall will be determined by the least convincing element.  I've done vats before and folded hoses from lead foil.  Not bad, but definitely the least convincing bit - so this is an improvement.

Lawrence

Beautiful work!

Hello!
This thread was unfortunately new to me..
Outstanding work. Unfamiliar techniques to me too, but very convincing.

H

Lawrence, you really must become our resident 3-D CAD and printing guru. -- Russ

Quote from: finescalerr on April 15, 2021, 12:15:51 PM
Lawrence, you really must become our resident 3-D CAD and printing guru. -- Russ

I'm not sure about that, but happy to help.

Half the battle is knowing a thing is possible.  Finding out how is usually just a Youtube tutorial away...

As well as the water vat I've been working on the coal stage as the two sit side by side on the layout.

The vat would have been well maintained and thus weathered paintwork was a good approach.  The coal stage was a far rougher structure and would have faced damage from years of loading/unloading coal.  Inspired by Mr Doan's work, this prompted me to look for ways to model weathered wood in 1:64 in a way that was not too time intensive (remember that all these models are part of a larger whole, not ends in themselves).  First experiments are earlier in this thread, but here is progress on the structure.

A 2 part clip together print this has proven quite quick to do on the real world side.  I've printed a few of them and this is the result of the second experiment.  Steps were:

• prime
• filter (only a play with this as I hadn't used it before)
• paint gray
• dark enamel wash
• spray chipping fluid (or hairspray)
• topcoat
• remove paint with tape
• Another wash to inside surfaces

This works well and is very quick because the details are all in the print.  Now I've done my proof of concepts I can take a little more care with the final version.

That looks excellent!

Despite the lack of updates various things have been progressing on the layout - more development and technical than visual though.

However I have got to a stage with scenic experiments (and photostacking) where I can present some progress.

The image here is just a short length of rockface and adjacent track.  None of it's finished, but it is getting there.  It's been something of a challenge to represent the flora of the place.  Now i'm bedding my methods down progress should be a bit faster.

Lawrence

The result is more than satisfactory. With which software did you do the photostacking and is there actually a freeware for it?

If the scenery still is unfinished, please be sure to post again when it is complete! -- russ

Quote from: Lawrence@NZFinescale on November 14, 2021, 08:48:59 PM
Despite the lack of updates various things have been progressing on the layout - more development and technical than visual though.

However I have got to a stage with scenic experiments (and photostacking) where I can present some progress.

The image here is just a short length of rockface and adjacent track.  None of it's finished, but it is getting there.  It's been something of a challenge to represent the flora of the place.  Now i'm bedding my methods down progress should be a bit faster.

Lawrence

I´m with Russ. If this is unfinished business, I can not wait to see it when it is done.

Is there a pinion rack in the middle of the track, by the way?

Fantastic work on the scenery.  The clump of grasses hiding behind the bushes in the left fore ground looks, at first glance, like an oversized fox hiding in the weeds.

Quote from: Design-HSB on November 14, 2021, 11:48:48 PM
The result is more than satisfactory. With which software did you do the photostacking and is there actually a freeware for it?

Thanks Helmut.  I used the free trial version of Affinity based on recommendation here.  Previously I'd use PS Elements with the Elements+ add-on. Affinity is better, waaaaay faster and reasonably priced.

Quote from: Hauk on November 15, 2021, 03:06:26 AM

I´m with Russ. If this is unfinished business, I can not wait to see it when it is done.

Is there a pinion rack in the middle of the track, by the way?

Cheers Hauk.

The centre rail is on the Fell patent and is plain symmetrical rail.  On this line it was used solely for braking.  There were special vans with a gripper brake.  The locomotives were also fitted with a centre rail brake, but one of the old drivers told me they were never used other than as a holding brake when stationary. (He did use the loco brake one day, out of curiosity, resulting in a large bang and many yards of centre rail ripped up.  Something failed under the loco).  The Fell patent was used for ascending elsewhere - there were gripper wheels that clamped the side of the rail.

There's a blog post on my journey to model the centre rail here: https://nzfinescale.com/more-fell-deeds/

Good looking rock face. I especially like the ferns, what are they?

Quote from: Bill Gill on November 15, 2021, 10:13:54 AM
Good looking rock face. I especially like the ferns, what are they?

Like many here I like to hoe my own row, so almost all of the things on the layout are scratchbuilt or from my own products.  As I make the products they reflect my interests so are dead right for the layout. 

The ferns are etched in 0.1mm brass.  Sprayed up and coloured in the flat.  I've found that 3-4 fronds make a reasonable looking plant.  While real ferns generally have far more this works quite well in practice.  I curve the fronds with fingers and set the bases into a dob of gem adhesive set on some non-stick sheet (used label backing).  Finish with a sprinkle of short staple dark brown static fibre (representing the very hairy bases of these plants). Gem adhesive is a viscous, high build acrylic (I think) that remains a bit tacky and rubbery.  This keeps the fronds as placed and they don't fall over (much). I do a sheet of plants, and then peel and stick.  Generally they tack themselves in place and I reinforce with white glue.

Quite a few of the plants in this view are brass actually.

https://nzfinescale.com/emporium/finescale-foliage/ferns/

That seems to work so well I think I'll replace the living plants in my backyard with etched brass. And they don't need water, a boon in our drought stricken state. -- ssuR

Quote from: finescalerr on November 15, 2021, 11:40:43 AM
That seems to work so well I think I'll replace the living plants in my backyard with etched brass. And they don't need water, a boon in our drought stricken state. -- ssuR

If you let me supply I'll be able to retire!

Lawrence, it didn't occur to me that the ferns are etched brass. Very nice! Imodel in HO scale and had unsuccessfully looked into the possibility of laser cutting both ferns and sumac fronds from origami or cigarette paper. Thanks, you have renewed my interest in new possibilities.

Beautiful work Lawence... the rock face is excellent, very convincing and a good balance of foliage. Nothing fanciful about this at all... well done.

Superb  scenery - and greenery 
Barney

It's been a while...

I've been working on means to represent the various characteristic plants need to give the layout the feel I'm after.  As so often happens, a little progress just leads to more work as new skills are learnt.

At this point I have more or less finished a swath of forest.  There may be a few tweaks, but the next step is to replicate it across the layout.

Lawrence

And a slightly different angle - I particularly like the Kiekie plant (looks like a tussock) growing up the dead tree.

Almost no giveaway at all that we're looking at a model. -- Russ

Ooooh! How did you do the Kiekie?

The Kiekie is an etch.  Dead easy to do.  Not visible in the pic, but I modelled the stems climbing the tree with plumber's hemp.

Funny where you bump into people :-)

Here's the dead tree in full view.

Kiekie is a climbing plant that uses other trees etc for support.  Modelled using an etch, with the stems from plumber's hemp.  The dead tree is a root collected on a ramble at some point.  Possibly the easiest tree that I've made, but full of character and a favourite.

The etched plant is done as a comb.  This is pre-painted, leaves curved and then the plant is rolled up.  Pretty simple to do, and the same technique I've used to model a number of similarly structured plants (Toetoe, cabbage tree, Phormium flax).  The etches just differ in leaf dimensions.

I have tried to model the whole vertical diversity of the bush from floor to canopy.  Much nice stuff is hidden away out of view (wasted effort?), but enough grins through from place to place to give the desired effect.

Excellent work, and very attractive! I love that close up view of the dead tree -- really shows off all of the varied undergrowth, mosses, etc.

Your forest looks very good. I especially like the trees stretching their branches to the light, away from the shady slope. The Kiekie indeed looks very good, very vegetational.

Cheers
Volker

Brilliant, extremely realistic.
Les

Congratulations, for me this is one of the best designed landscapes.

The many details of the vegetation are excellent.

Mind blowing stuff !!! with excellense
Barney

WOW!  I have absolutely no first-hand experience with that environment, but your modelling is so expressive and well done, it is totally believable.

The foliage is gradually spreading to cover the baseboards.

The creek has also been watered since my last post.

This view is more or less complete other than some weedy plants in the foreground and some work to make the grass less uniform. The telegraph poles need some bedding in and a bit more dirt and coal spillage adding around the track.

I've found that chopped silk fibres make excellent twigs to bridge the gap between printed branches and flock leaves.  I chop dyed silk to around 2mm length and push it onto the tree after applying high hold hairspray.  Shaking the tree dislodges almost all the excess.  The remainder can be blown off with compressed air, which also aligns the fibres vertically.  Another coating of hairspray and the flock can be applied which creates a very delicate effect.  Silk is a smooth fibre so this works well.

Satisfactory.

Want to rebuild my layout?

Russ

Quote from: finescalerr on June 02, 2022, 07:12:19 PM
Satisfactory.

Want to rebuild my layout?

Russ

Have you got 20 years?
;)

Wow, I am just catching up. Really excellent and inspiring work Lawrence!

Fantastic! It's great to see such lush foliage modeled so well!

Chuck

It may not be obvious in the pic, but the telegraph poles have CD inspired cocktail stick knots in them.  Much better for it too :-)

L

Recently the was a diorama on the armorama forum called «The Road to Singapore». The modeler (I forgot his name) did a lot of research on vegetation of South East Asia and the result was about as convincing as your work.
BUT... that was just a small diorama and not an entire layout!!!
Phenomenal!

Inspiring work - so realistic -excellent
Barney

That is possibly the best and most convincing layout landscape and foliage I have ever seen... superb work!

Given the new sizing allowance on pics and the general ease of use of the new forum software, I thought I'd attach a couple more progress pics at better resolution and see how they present.

Hmmm.

It looks like the software constrains the pics to the frame.  Which is generally quite adequate.  In Windows, right clicking and selecting 'open in new tab' gives you a better resolution view if it's available.

To confirm, I clicked on the images and they enlarged very nicely on my 27 inch, 4k monitor. Then I tried opening an image in a new tab and the size was larger than the enlarged view and clicking the magnifying glass icon showed an image almost twice what you get on the forum. Finally I downloaded the image and opened it on the computer and, while it may have been slightly larger, the difference is minimal.

I encourage everyone to enlarge Lawrence's hi-res images. You'll see things larger and more crisply and may notice things you couldn't see previously, such as the four spikes in every tie of the handlaid rails.

Altogether a rather satisfactory presentation.

Russ

Hi Russ good to hear it works for you.

It's a useful general thing though.  If you post Hi res images on the forum they'll display quite nicely in the forum BUT you can easily look at them at native resolution by opening in a new tab.  For the great modelling content here that is a real plus - but you need to appreciate the small dodge required to get there.

In terms of the track, it's actually a 3D print other than the rail.  You can see this in the attached - where one of the fixings has broken off due to rough assembly.  This was one of my first attempts at modelling woodgrain on the timbers.  It is a bit crude in close up, but works well from normal viewing distance - which is enforced on the layout as this form of track is towards the back.

It's been a while...

The prototype pic shows the scene that more or less will comprise the layout.  As can been seen this small terminus generated a relatively large amount of passenger traffic.  This was a place old cars went to die and these cars dating from the late 1800s/early 1900s will likely be written off when they are no longer adequate for this duty.

These wooden sheathed cars were originally built with open verandahs and no gates.  In the early C20 additional end railings and gates were fitted, and then the gates were extended to the condition shown here according to the 1916 drawing.

This is quite the modelling problem in 1:64 as the gate ought to be constructed from 0.5 x 0.1mm strip with 0.2mm diameter verticals.  In the mid-90s I did an etch for them, somewhat over scale and compromising by running the verticals through the gate to the extension rather than using strap.  This version had a number of guide tags that fitted an etched jig that needed filing off after construction. It worked, and pretty good at the time, but a task to be approached with trepidation.  More recently I produced some 3D printed jigs to simplify making them and to improve consistency. A major step forward, but the original guide tabs are now more hindrance than help.

Currently I'm in the middle of building all of these cars, and that's a lot of gates (38 in fact for the 9 cars under way, one of which is a centre entry so needs 6).  This focussed my attention on a) making them as slick to build as possible and b) wondering if 30 odd elapsed years allowed something with less compromise.

So this time around I etched the gates in 0.1mm material and drew the strapping at 0.6mm.  With the etching undercut, the resulting strap will be around 0.5mm.  The gate extension was drawn as a fold up as trying to gather multiple tiny pieces seemed like a step too hard. The jigs were reworked a bit to suit.  End result is a gate that is relatively easy to build, about as close to scale as really makes no difference, and reproducible to a close tolerance.

The third pic shows the printed jig, my mid-90s version gate and the latest version.  Then there's one on my finger for scale. The right hand side of the jig is used for initial shaping, the left is for final shaping and soldering up (It's a heat resistant resin)

Was it worth the effort?  Certainly the new version looks finer and it is easier to get a nice curve in the extension top.  The finer etch is easier to work with and by integrating the design with the printed jig the whole process is much simpler.  On looks alone I might not have bothered, but ease and consistency are a significant plus.

In the 30 years since the initial attempt, did an advance in metallurgy permit your current use of smaller diameter wire?

The revelation that you printed a heat resistant resin jig should be a headline. That little tip could help a lot of dreams come true.

By now it is abundantly clear to everyone that you have lost whatever may have remained of your mind but the results of your lunacy are certainly spectacular.

Russ

No metallurgical advances.  The gates were my first project and I commissioned the artwork prior to learning to draw my own. So plenty of learning on my part.  Easier to get hard 0.2mm wire these days though.

Assembly jigs are great - the resin I use is good for vulcanised rubber moulds, but most of these resins are probably OK for at least one off use provided you are not trying to pump in too much heat. If this makes your dreams come true, I'm glad to be of assistance.

There are plenty of signs my mind is not what it once was...

Such assembly jigs are well known among others by Frithjof (fspg2)! But NOT in that tininess!!!

Superb  :o

Marvelous work! I'd go nuts trying to make one of those, much less 38.

Great work, very inspiring!

Thanks guys

I see Russ is getting fractious about low post volume, so:

The locomotives on the Rewanui branch were a select group as the centre braking rail meant that clearances restricted availability.  At the very least cowcatchers needed to be cut away and brake rigging modified.  To be practically useful a centre rail gripping brake also needed to be fitted.

In my 1940 period the available motive power was 2x We class (featured early in this thread), 2x W class 2-6-2 tank locos and 3x Wa class 2-6-2 tanks.  In reality the Wa class were relatively rare at Rewanui as they tended to work the nearby Roa incline which had similar constraints.

The three Was were interesting from a modelling perspective as just about any conceivable detail difference was exhibited between them. They even had different valve gear arrangements, two with slide valves and one with piston.

I etched the parts for these locos some time ago, and the urge finally took me to put one together.  All nickel silver soldered up (although some parts are just clip/press fit at this juncture). This is Wa217, one of the slide valve engines that featured a unique extended cab.  This is the result of a couple of days poking the trusty Weller around.  No clever soldering technology here (though I'm not averse to it when the need arises)

The prototype image is from WW Stewart.

Lawrence, your skills seem somewhat adequate. Is modeling just a hobby for you? Does creating sophisticated miniatures in some way reflect how you earn your living? Every time you post something I find myself reeling in stunned disbelief. Even your photography is satisfactory. -- Russ

Lawrence, Like Russ I'm awestruck with your craftmanship. (The choice of loco ain't bad either).

Very fine work!

Correction: I enclosed the wrong prototype pic in the last post (my fault for clicking thumbnails instead of reading filenames)

That was W 192 - still an interesting and favourite loco, but not the subject of the post.

Here's Wa 217. 

The two Ws were NZR's first home built locos.  The subsequent Wa's were very similar but had slightly larger driving wheels.  While the overall dimensions were basically the same, the details make for an interesting collection.

Russ: I've modelled in a semi commercial way for many years.  Semi-commercial in that I do what I want and sell off kits and parts to anyone who is like-minded. The market for etched Wa kits is very small but does justify and fund the development costs.

Hauk: I'll modestly allow that I do have some skill with a soldering iron but much, if not most, of the clean look is due to the etching design which for the most part allows soldering in inconspicuous areas.  There's a lot of slot/tab and fold up meaning many 'joints' don't need soldering at all.

Your work is remarkably neat, and those prototype locos are very cool!

The Wa 217 build is moving along.

Here it is with more or less all the major etched parts fitted.  I've also added the tank patches in brass. It's still placed subassemblies too - not fixed together.

The chassis design is split frame, 3 point compensated.  The frames ends are modelled as part of the body.  The compensation beams have cosmetic springs attached and pivot in the same location as the real thing (although the beam design is very different).  You can see the ends of the M1 retaining screws at the pivot point, yet to be cut back. The wheelsets will be fitted with 6mmOD ball races that will be able to move vertically in the horns.  Electrical insulation is by PCboard strips.  I had these made in China, milled to width, etched and solder coated very cost-effectively.  I 3D printed chassis set up jigs to get everything nice and square and true.

All the digital patternwork for the castings was done some time ago and some castings are on hand.  However a few bits are unique to this loco and I've had some new ideas recently, so the full casting set will be a way aways yet. Businesses commonly shut down for summer/Christmas here, so it will likely be late January until there is much progress.  I do have the wheel castings on hand, so these can be worked up.

I could (and have previously) made all this from scratch from sheet stock.  I find it much more relaxing to do all the design (correction/redesign/fiddle/redesign etc) on the PC and use external contractors to do the mundane stuff.  I then have a relatively relaxing time at the workbench assembling parts that fit and work.  It doesn't always go entirely smoothly, but on the whole it's enjoyable. 

On the whole, it's also enjoyable to see your progress. -- Russ

'On the whole' because I'm not immune to the odd cussing session provoked by burnt fingers, errant solder, and similar :-)

Lawrence, burnt fingers aside, that's terrific work.
I'm curious, could there be any long term electrolysis between nickel silver and brass?

I'm on a coastal shoreline, everything is damp and often salty, so corrosion is common.

I doubt it Bill

Nickel silver is essentially brass with added nickel.  It's been used for many years to build locomotives and nobody has reported such problems.  When you consider that the nickel silver will be in electrical contact with solder, bronze castings, brass detailing, copper wire, steel screws, stainless steel axles and lead ballast at least, the brass will be the least of it I imagine.

I'm able to use steel rail and tyres here, so I don't envisage any issues at all.

Lawrence, this is really great work, and an interesting prototype. How did you recreate all those rivets?

Bernhard

Thanks Bernhard

Rivets are a mix.  Most are just etched in, so drawn in the artwork and presto back come the parts all nicely riveted.  For various reasons that does not always work conveniently.  When that's the case I add an etched dimple on the BACK side of the piece and use a press to punch in the rivets using the dimples as guides.

I've enough experience with CAD and etching that I would probably do it this way even for a one off. After all, one needs to prepare working drawings to make a model, and turning those into etching artwork is not a huge extra step. However I never really do one offs as a) I usually have a short run kit in mind, and b) even if I didn't I have no doubt I could sell of sufficient etchings to cover the effort and costs.

The Wa class has much in common with the W that I did kits for some time ago.  Reworking the artwork to suit the Wa was not that big a job and since I want 2-3 Was  it is well worth doing.  The Wa is a viable kit subject as well and I have quite a bit of interest I can work on once the pilot model is done.

With this model I'm playing with a few ideas for my own loco building that likely won't be commercial, but 90+% of my build effort will go straight into the kit.

Hi Laurence.
love your posts,happy New Year from across the ditch.

Something of a digression from the main topic here...

When building small locos the motion is always a trick and I'm always looking to make life a bit easier.  Illustrated below are castings for the cylinder ends, slidebars and motion bracket for a 1:64 NZR Ab class Pacific (second 2) and slide valve cylinder/slidebar/motion bracket for Wa217 discussed earlier in this thread (my justification for including these pics here).  Doing them in one piece is tricky, but makes assembly much easier.

The 'waxes' were 3D printed in two halves (left and right), joined with molten wax and sent to my contractor for casting into silicon bronze (generally referred to as 'brass').

All the holes will need clearing/opening up and the slidebars will need careful filing to clean up, but this will not be hard to do.  Casting this way involves very low shrinkage, so the parts will just clip in to the etched chassis/printed cylinders. They will form a super solid basis on which to assemble the valve gears.

These are pretty nice castings for the small scale.  The surfaces are not as nice as they can be from a true wax, but the detail level is way better than I could achieve with a hand made brass pattern.  Of course a hand made brass pattern would require a rubber mould - which would likely be impractical for these parts let alone the variable shrinkage that would need to be dealt with.  My understanding is that my caster just treats the printed 'waxes' the same way as he does regular wax.  Results would possibly be better if materials and procedures specific for printed resin were used.  Unfortunately my volumes are not enough to justify special conditions.

This has been a choke point so now I can get on to building the locos again.

They are sufficiently perfect that no imperfection will be evident when you paint them. Most satisfactory. -- Russ

Lovely stuff  - I wish some of the other casting people Could learn a bit and start supplying castings of quality
But keep the excellent work up
Barney

Some more castings - this time for Wa217.

This is a quickly stacked image and there is a bit of 'glow' around the edges, but you'll get the idea.

Domes are just placed for the photo.  The sand domes are as received from the caster, other than removing the sprue and truing the bases to fit the boiler.  They need a bit of tidying up. The steam dome has been polished using diamond pastes and a felt wheel.  Safeties and whistle added as separate parts.

All domes are hollow with a wall thickness of 0.5mm or so.  This makes them easy to work with when drilling and adding detail.  The main bodies of the sand domes are just over 8mm diameter.

Also another pic of the real thing at the time I'm modelling.  Fresh from overhaul 1940 (SA Rockliffe photo, NZRLS collection)

Lawrence, You even captured small dents in the steam dome that can be seen in the prototype photo!

ahem, cough!  Yessss. It does look like that, but actually those are casting defects :-)

Excellent parts, Lawrence. It's fascinating how small and detailed parts can be cast.

Bernhard

I very much enjoy seeing what kind of mischief you get into. Please post a little more often. -- Russ

Brilliant work! Inspiring!

A digression.

I'm currently on my 3rd and 4th 3D resin printers.  The first was a DLP that I have fond memories of, but it died and was prohibitive to fix. The second was a laser machine the less said about the better.  Fortunately consumer law here meant I got my money back, if not my time.  The current two are LCD machines with differing bed sizes and resolution.

Overall the LCD machines are the best of the bunch by some margin, but there are still some things that the DLP set up would do that the LCD has not been able to match. The DLP had a gentle release mechanism and I used a pretty rigid resin that allowed fine wires to print.

Lately LCD resins have improved a bit and I'm now close to what I could do over 5 years ago.

The grey primed wheel is today's print (35u resolution, 35u layer height).  Not exactly the same file as the others and I omitted the wheel nuts, but you get the idea.  These spokes are drawn at 0.15mm diameter and could possibly be finer.  0.1mm spokes did not reliably form, but did partly print, so finer might work.  You can see layering here, but not at any reasonable magnification. At these dimensions paint film thickness starts to be a significant factor too.

The other pics may have appeared here before.  The orange wheel was from the DLP.  Smoother, but that is probably due to a somewhat softer focus and a bit of over-exposure.

The last pic is just to provide a scale for the whole exercise.

I'm pretty happy.  Not being able to produce this style of print after years of it being routine has been a little frustrating, so it is nice to have this ability once again.

 

You are a master 3-D printer. -- Russ

Such fine detail in something so small is astonishing to me!

Back on topic...

In 1878 New Zealand railways were very much a British colonial affair, but it was dawning on some luminaries at head office that some American practices would be more appropriate for our steeply graded, tightly curved, narrow gauge system.

So an order was placed with the Gilbert Bush Company of New York for some 'drawing roomed cars to be lined in plush velvet on the double bogie principle', passenger accommodations having hitherto been of the 4 or 6 wheel variety.  The cars were successful and became the pattern for subsequent locally made stock. A family resemblance was evident in wooden sheathed stock through to the end of steam, so this small batch of imported cars were historically significant.

The GB cars were constructed from American hardwoods, whilst the local versions ('Addington' cars) were in native, lower strength, timbers.  As a result, the US cars had 13, as opposed to 12, windows to a side and shallower underframe timbers.

By 1940 these premium cars were on their last legs having been downgraded significantly.  The three on the Rewanui service were all written off by the end of 1940.  I have yet to find a photo of a GB car at Rewanui, but there is one of a car leaving Greymouth Riverside on a Rewanui train.  The Gilbert Bush car is the second in the train behind one of the early local copies (with wood underframe) and ahead of a later variant (with steel underframe).

As a modelling prospect the GB cars are appealing for my needs. Relatively easy, as the basic method was proven on my 'Addington' cars. Etched windows were on hand and the bogies just needed to be stretched from 4' 4" to 4' 6".  On the downside the original drawings have not survived, but I was able to create a good side elevation by photoshopping the image of late survivor A230 at Dunedin.

My model of A256 is coming on so hopefully some pics in the next few days.

As promised, here's the model.

1:64 on 16.5mm gauge track.

Basically a number of large 3D prints.  Added to this are 3D printed and cast brass details.  There are some etched parts in there too - notably the window frames (which slide open per the prototype), and the gates.

As always it's about integrating the various methods into something that blends smoothly into a model that well represents the prototype - that's the plan anyway.

This one has been a while coming as I seemed to fiddle endlessly with some of the details. I've upped my game a bit and as there are a few to do it was worth sorting some methods I can use for future cars.

Very Nice and a very clean bit of model engineering in miniature
Barney

Someone jealous of your skills could call the sliding windows overkill but, still, most satisfactory. -- Russ

That looks great!!

Beautiful!

Another slight digression...

I've been working on wheels for Wa217, but for various reasons I've ended up completing a set for an Ab class pacific (which has no place at Rewanui) first.  Other than the fact they are a different wheel entirely, the method (and hopefully result) is similar.

I'm a self taught machinist with limited equipment so some of my techniques are pragmatic.

• Digital patterns incorporate the crankpins, chuck mounting flanges and alignment features
• Printed in a castable resin and investment cast into brass.  These castings are wickedly accurate and true.
• Castings are cosmetically cleaned up.  A bit of emery on the spokes to remove some minor 3D print layering is all that's needed.
• Tire blanks turned from free turning steel. (under bore, over diameter and over thick).  It's a heavy job done at a friend's place as my Unimat3 is not up to it.
• Castings faced at the back and the axle bore opened out to a press fit size on the 3mm axle with a 1:50 taper pin reamer.  The castings are very accurate and the cast axle hole is nominal 2.9mm bore, so it is not a lot of work. I have a little turned jig with 3 lands corresponding to too small, just right and too large. I want to use the bore as the datum as any errors should be evenly distributed and not obvious.  If I use the rim to drill the centre boss any lack of concentricity is very obvious.
• Stub axles are fitted. All subsequent operations/fixtures use these as the datum so the finished product is true.
• The crankpins are turned/drilled in a fixture and tapped M1.
• The centre is turned to the correct OD in a fixture
• Tire blanks are faced and accurately bored to a press fit on the centres.  Again I make a too small, just right and too large jig to easily get this right. The jig is made when I turn the centres.  Too large (ie the tire will be a sliding fit) is identical to the OD of the wheel centre, just right is 0.03mm smaller and too small another 0.03mm less than that.  If the tire sits snugly on the 'just right' land, but will not go onto the 'too big' land then they'll be a secure press fit. Obviously I'm using the lathe graduations to get this right too, but small ID holes are hard to measure accurately and the jigs remove the problem.
• Tires are press fitted so that they are flush with the wheel back
• Tire profile is machined.

All of these operations are done batch-wise so that the lathe set up is identical and each wheel uses the same settings. I've done a number of wheelsets now and refined the method as I've gone along.  It's still a bit laborious (particularly when you snap the tap), but went pretty smoothly this iteration.

They look great!

Jewelry. -- Russ

Lawrence, terrific!
Will the wheels be electrically insulated on one side of the locomotive? If so, what will be the insulation and how will its fit between the tire and the center gauged? (I'm just curious and impressed, this is far beyond anything I could atempt, but I enjoy following along.)

Quote from: Bill Gill on March 31, 2023, 05:58:30 AMLawrence, terrific!
Will the wheels be electrically insulated on one side of the locomotive? If so, what will be the insulation and how will its fit between the tire and the center gauged? (I'm just curious and impressed, this is far beyond anything I could atempt, but I enjoy following along.)

Thanks Bill
I build my locos as 'split frame' (aka 'split axle') meaning that the loco frames are electrically isolated from one another.  So the wheels are live to the frame on each side.  Electrically simple and no pickups/wipers required, and you can have metal brake shoes/sand pipes nice and close.  However you do need to isolate the frames (simple with PC board spacers) and axle halves (not that hard to do. I'm using a commercial solution here, but there are other ways).

Thanks, Lawrence.Sounds like a simple and reliable system. My Mantua 0-4-0 has a very thin insulating layer between the tires and centers of the drivers on one side. I've been told it's probably paper.

Quote from: Bill Gill on April 01, 2023, 05:28:41 AMThanks, Lawrence.Sounds like a simple and reliable system. My Mantua 0-4-0 has a very thin insulating layer between the tires and centers of the drivers on one side. I've been told it's probably paper.

I'm aware.  In the remains of the british empire that's referred to as the 'American system'. :-)

Continuing on the Ab pacific digression...

My locos have mostly been based on etched chassis from digital artwork.  So etched rods and etched frames mean that the centres are exact and identical as they need to be.  However, etched rods are not the best way to represent the large rod ends typical of NZR engines.

So this time around I'm trying something a little different.  Cast rods with separate brasses.  The brasses sit in elongated holes that allow adjustment in a jig to achieve the correct dimension. The centre driver is the datum and so doesn't need the extra fiddle.

The pic shows the castings more or less cleaned up with a sprue of 'brasses' to fit.  In 1:64 scale rods are a little flexible so I've added a strongback that should be invisible from normal viewing.  The pic reveals I have a little more cleaning up to do, but the castings should look a lot more convincing that a laminated etch.

My test run for this process suggests it will be quite feasible, so I'll be using the method on the Wa too.  The only wrinkle there is that the parts are somewhat smaller which will just add to the fun.

Absolutely gorgeous. Stick with castings. -- Russ

Great work...I'm about to embark on a split frame loco...curious what is your "commercial solution" you mentioned?

Quote from: SandiaPaul on April 02, 2023, 04:15:07 AMGreat work...I'm about to embark on a split frame loco...curious what is your "commercial solution" you mentioned?

Hi Paul

North Yard (northyard.co.nz), here in NZ, offer a 3mm split axle that comes in male/female halves with a moulded acetal bush to electrically isolate.  The whole assembly is push fit.  It's not too bad.  The male half is knurled to take a press fit gear which I find annoying as I like to use the axle for alignment in fixtures and the knurling interferes with that.  You are restricted as to overall length although there are some options, but it is easy enough to get one that is too long and to shorten the male half.  There's also a version that has reduced 2mm ends for smaller locos. They also supply axle material in 300mm length and if you can turn your own sufficiently accurately then the bushes might provide an easy way to do your own.

For kit production it is ideal as it gives an available, relatively simple solution with local market acceptance. For myself I'm a bit ambivalent as the knurling and incorrect length (for me) reduces some of the advantage.  They are also expensive for what they are.

For non-driven axles an acetal muff is often easier to do.  Obviously this gives a relatively fat axle between frames, but on a tank loco like the Wa you cannot tell.  As I have 3mm bore gears the driven axle is more problematic and the NY solution largely solves it.  To be fair if I were using NY wheels, axles and gearboxes then the whole system would be easier.

Note that the North Yard website is hopeless, and while it nominally offers an online shop there are few products actually listed so it's moot. Roger does respond to email though.  They no longer offer a catalogue, but the following is cut and pasted from a very old one I have on file.  Part numbers are still current I believe:

SPLIT AXLE PARTS stainless steel
North Yard split axles consist of male and
female axle halves press - fitted together with
an acetal insulating bush. The bush has a head
0.5mm thick; the length of axles that can be
produced is:
(male half length + female half length + 0.5mm).
While complete split axles can be supplied, it is
not advisable to press - fit metal wheels on to
these, as the force required will usually crush
the head of the plastic bush. Slide - fit wheels
with a 3.00mm reamed bore can be used and
secured in place with LOCTITE 601 or similar.
To press - fit wheels, the following procedure
should be used:
1. The correct bore size is 2.98mm.
2. Fit wheels and/or bearings and gear to each
axle half.
3. Push plastic bush into female axle half.
4. Press axle halves together. Check the
tightness of the joint, but do not disturb
unnecessarily. If the joint is not tight enough,
carefully twist apart, then apply a small amount
of Loctite inside the female end. Press the axle
together again and leave to set overnight. Be
careful to keep Loctite away from axle bearings
or you will end up with a non-rotating axle!
547 Axle half female Ø3 x 7.5
548 Axle half female Ø3 x 10
2857 Axle half female Ø3 x 13
2057 Axle half fem Ø3x8.5/Ø2x2.77
553 Axle half male Ø3x12 knurled
554 Axle half male Ø3x15.5 knurled
2858 Axle half male Ø3x17.5 knurled
2058 Axle half male Ø3x11/Ø2x2.77
529 Bush Ø2.5 x Ø1.6 x 5 acetal

It's been quiet, so yet another digression..

I post these cowcatchers as they reflect the current limit of what is possible with the materials and methods available to me.  These are 1:64 and the rods are nominally 0.5mm diameter.

The eagle-eyed will note that I have had to repair some of the rods, hence the comment that it is at the limit.  Finer and/or longer rods won't print or cast reliably at present. These were printed in a castable resin by me and cast into silicon bronze by my local casting house.  Print orientation was arranged so that the rods were close to vertical to get a good print.  My feeds were perhaps a bit small and in some cases the metal has fed down each end of the rod but not welded together at the interface.  A touch of solder fixes that, but more generous feeds might have improved matters.

These are a one off pair for a project, although the digital pattern was not from scratch, being modified from a similar cowcatcher on hand.

Lawrence, That's impressive.
Did the resin masters need much cleaning up from the print supports? If so that must have been a challenge with the rods being only 0.5mm

Maybe not perfect ... but close. I can't imagine seeing work of that quality ten years ago. -- Russ

Quote from: Bill Gill on May 31, 2023, 04:33:58 AMLawrence, That's impressive.
Did the resin masters need much cleaning up from the print supports? If so that must have been a challenge with the rods being only 0.5mm

Thanks, I was impressed too - after all it is one thing to draw a part, but another for the technology to reproduce it. 

The printing arrangement is attached. Everything in grey is cast, the magenta bits are supports removed after printing. To answer your question, very little support clean up other than 2s flicking off the few supports which were not to the final part anyway (but see my final comment).

I have an approach which has been honed over time and typically:

• I print half sprues.  The faces in contact with the buildplate will later be stuck together (with wax) before being sent away (so the cowcatchers were cast as a pair on 1 sprue).  This approach tends to make printing faster (as the prints are short) and typically makes everything easier.
• I use supports (drawn in CAD) as feeds where possible. Generally this allows quite robust supports that mechanically support the model in printing, minimising purely print supports and the scars/cleanup they entail. My castings probably have more feeds than necessary as a result and these do need cleanup.  However castings need clean up anyway and I position feeds/supports where they'll either be easy to clean up or inconspicuous.  As seen here, there are a LOT of feeds, but they are all small and on flat back faces - so tidying them up is not hard at all.

The approach for printed 'waxes' can be very different to that used for moulded waxes from traditional patterns. With no mould step you are not constrained to a mouldable model.

I had to recreate the image for this post, and I now recall there were also a couple of small supports to the outside rods (as these are at a flatter angle). These did need careful removal with a flush cutter, but there were only 4 per catcher.

It's really impressive what's possible these days with 3D printing and precision casting. It opens up a whole new range of possibilities in model making, and I'm happy to take advantage of them.

Bernhard

They look great!

Not modelling in this installment, but the real thing.

We are fortunate locally that our relatively recent history is accorded some respect by government and volunteers who frequently make resources available for free.  The national film archive (ngataonga) is one such resource.  I recently stumbled upon the film in the attached link that features Rewanui at more or less the time I'm modelling it - A great treasure.

The film is amateur in B&W and (surprisingly) colour.  It is not clear over what time span it was taken, but some B&W scenes can be dated with some assurance to 1939/40 and colour scenes of the Rewanui incline feature a car that was probably gone from the region by 1947, so 1940-45 is my guess for the whole film (Not 1930 as the site states).  It jumps around in location a fair bit between Rewanui, the mines above that justified the railway and Rapahoe which was a sea level loading site for coal sourced from seams in a valley adjacent to Rewanui.

The film is an odd mix of things and starts very slowly and without sound, so you need to stick with it a little.  Over 330 people are listed as working in coal extraction at the mine in 1940.  The whole site is now a ghost town overtaken by native forest.
Scenes of specific interest to the model:
2:00-2:27.  Arrival of the morning miner's train to Rewanui station.  This whole scene features in the model including the train.
12:00  Rewanui bins on the backshunt.  In my model this area is represented by a fiddle yard.
12:08-12:50 the station and station masters house.  Absolute gold to have this elevation in colour at the appropriate period.
13:48 Hoppers being loaded at Rapahoe.  The location is a few miles off, but the rolling stock is spot on for me.
15:00-16:45 Ascending the incline.  Off scene for my model, but the trains are spot on. Shows the geography of the spot well.

https://www.ngataonga.org.nz/search-use-collection/search/F11644/

The attached pics show the area today.  The ironwork over the creek is what is left of the roperoad trestle featured in the film.

Hi Lawrence.
r
Really a great clip it puts your modelling into a proper perspective, love the miners finishing their shift and coming out of the shaft,so many stories there.
The location reminds me of that tragic mine accident about 10 years ago is it close?
cheers Kim

The color footage really puts things into perspective. Altogether a remarkable historic resource. -- Russ

What a fantastic glimpse into the past!

QuoteThe location reminds me of that tragic mine accident about 10 years ago is it close?

About 20 km south-west.

An interesting piece of history with interesting detailed insights.

Bernhard

Lovely inspiration  photos
Barney

In this week's episode, back to locomotive building.

As you may recall the layout will feature three Wa class 2-6-2T locomotives.  While nominally the same class, the locomotives differed in almost every conceivable detail.

I've been working on patterns for the locos of late, but here is progress on the first of the three, Wa217.  In this posed pic most of the parts are placed or clipped in place so there are many gaps that will get sorted out as we move on.  Unfortunately, I'm waiting on a chimney casting so the loco looks a little unbalanced here.

217 had slide valves, single slide bars, extended cab, rod style cowcatcher and the early style of ornate sandboxes. The extended cab caught me out fitting the domes as I measured with the cab off.  Fortunately on this build I decided to screw the domes on rather than solder them, so drilling 2 new holes fixed things up.  I wasn't too far out, so the incorrect holes are still hidden under the domes.

Once the chimney is on hand I'll solder that in place and can then start fitting all the smaller details and pipework.  There are no significant unresolved bits on this loco as all the detail parts are on hand/underway.  It should just be a relatively relaxing assembly job from now on.

Satisfactory...so far. -- Russ

Geez, that's looking good!

Beautiful and excellence in miniature engineering
Barney

Very nice work.

I wish we had more of this in the states. I'm sure there are some companies here in the states that do etching. I also wish there were more manufactures of rolling stock producing metal etch kits. Probably will never happen a consumer wanting a finished product.

Bernd

Thanks Bernd

For what it's worth I would take this approach even for a one off personal scratchbuild.  In fact, my approach now is to build what I want and then to spin out the bits into a kit after the fact.  Not a good commercial approach, but putting my hobby first.

As far as sheetmetal goes you need to draw something up and work out how to put it together, however you scratchbuild the model.  Doing that is halfway to etching artwork.  Etching is relatively inexpensive.  I live in NZ and email my files to Scotland for etching, so proximity to suppliers is not limiting.  Etch for this loco including setup costs (but excl shipping) would be around US$150. That includes 2 of everything (spares), 2 frets of etches (chassis + body in different materials) and a lot of redundant/duplicate parts as the etches cover a variable class of engines. Most of that is set up, so costs for further locos would be significantly less.

In terms of castings, it's CAD, then 3d print then a contractor.  Relatively cheap.

Cash outlay for a one off scratchbuild is probably less than the price of a kit of similar specification purchased from others (if it existed).  There certainly are set up costs, but these are not huge compared to unit costs.

The difference, of course, is time.  Research and CAD work takes a lot of time that if costed commercially would make a short run kit very expensive.

Mitigating against that are experience, relationships and standard parts/existing work.

• I've been doing this for 30 years, so I have a lot of more or less standard approaches and a good feel for what will work - which saves a lot of time and means things generally work sufficiently well first time.  Undoubtedly some rework for kit release, but buildable for a one off/pilot.
• Resources are increasingly available electronically, and I know who to ask.  A couple of emails and a few days can yield the vast majority of the info required to build an NZR locomotive, if you know who and how to ask. When I started this could take months/years and I got a fraction of the data. There's a hobby in historical research and those folk can be extremely generous with their results.
• Many of the detail parts are standard, which reduces the new work a lot.

For commercial viability you need a market.  There is essentially no ready to run NZR available, so metal kits are the norm.  3D printing may well change that, although a metal loco is always going to be more durable.  Even so, a run of 30 would be my target and I'd be very happy if I reached 50. I'm most familiar with the UK market where etched kits have been common for a long time.  I gather that is not the case in the US, although historically you have had more or less similar products supplied assembled from Asia.

If there was demand, I'm sure somebody would fill it.  But coming back to earlier comments, you don't typically have a large layout if you are building your stock from etched kits.  I really enjoy a good etched kit, but they are not particularly quick to build well.

All of that makes perfect sense to me.

That is why I bought a laser, the most appropriate tool for creating the kind of model I build most often. But I suggest you make certain that tool isn't defective, like my laser, or it could cause you to abandon model building.

I very much enjoy working in CAD and designing models. It's a challenge and putting together a drawing is a lot like actual construction. Well, except for glue or solder. By contrast I find building tedious and sometimes nerve wracking but the finished product always is the payoff.

Someday it may become more difficult to find what we need from manufacturers. Should that happen, groups of hobbyists, such as those of us on this forum, may work together to help each other. Maybe one guy is a machinist, another has a 3-D printer, another has a laser, and another etches metal. The end result might be fewer models but they may be superior to anything we could buy today.

Or maybe that never will happen ....

Russ

Drifting off topic Russ but, yes, this is just the latest evolution in the hobby.

Locally there are half a dozen or so guys started up offering 3D design and print.  Not all of them will be good and not all will last, but the trend is towards small businesses (likely part time) offering to get you what you want.  Which is a good thing as a lot of modelling in the past has been buying kits of what you want most out of what's on offer, which is not the same as what you want.

Hobby lasers, CNC, printers etc all suffer from being priced/specified for hobbists and being in a rapidly changing field. I've had printers that used 3 different principles, one of which was a dismal failure.  While in no way supporting suppliers of defective equipment, I think we need to anticipate that such tools may not perform or last as we might wish. I treat new gear in this area as a gamble and don't spend money that I cannot afford to lose. For the most part the gambles have paid off pretty well. Of course, when it goes wrong I seek redress.

Hi Lawtence.
very Nice.
One question? where do you get your mechanisms from?
Cheers

I get my gears from the Czech Republic but otherwise I design and build the boxes myself.

In the latest progress most of the major castings added to Wa217.

The next step on the superstructure is to permanently fit the cab and air reservoirs and then run all of the piping.

The chassis needs the wheelsets fitted up and quartered, and some truck wheels sorting.  I have the drawings for the truck wheels but it seems from photos that these were changed often and 6 hole, 2 hole and no hole variants appear to be used (and not always the same at either end).  I've yet to conclude exactly which wheels to fit at the back.

The eagle eyed will note that the motion is averagely connected in places.  At this point some of the pins are over length and removable (or just plain missing).  The top slipper on the crosshead is a clip fit, so at this point I can still largely disassemble and remove the motion.  The need for this is largely passed but apparently I'm afraid of commitment.

The photo seems to have dropped off the last post, so here it is.

Most satisfactory. It has enough fine detail to make it impossible to guess the scale from a photo. -- Russ

Quoteapparently I'm afraid of commitment

Don't let Jill find out.

Excellent!

I've had my arm twisted to display layout progress.  This presupposes there is progress to display, so the pressure is on a bit.

One of the many hitherto largely unaddressed challenges has been the track - or specifically the turnouts.  Nobody makes Sn3.5 track (16.5mm gauge) that looks anything like the real thing found locally.  As most of my turnouts are in a yard and mostly well covered in ballast it probably doesn't matter all that much, but the switch area is always empty of ballast and so I wanted to get that area right at least. As usual this resulted in going somewhat further than entirely necessary.

It will always be a compromise.  For historical reasons I'm stuck with a somewhat narrower gauge with wider flangeways than true scale.  As a result simply scaling down the real thing doesn't work quite right.  I have good drawings for 1926 70lb turnouts so they are the basis, but there's been a bit of adjustment to capture the look without necessarily getting all the dimensions dead right. I'm using code 82 rail, which is 2.08mm compared to 1.93mm true scale. Code 75 would be almost dead on, but I cannot get that in steel, which is what I intend to use for the final track.

I've made all of the turnouts before with copperclad sleepers.  OK, but I've moved on a bit and they don't really satisfy.  So I thought I'd try 3d prints.  The result is really good.  This is the prototype so there are one or two minor things to revise, but not a lot.  I was concerned about longevity and stability, so brass PCB rivets have been fitted and the rail soldered to them from below.  It's rock solid with no visible solder.  I fill the rivets with solder, flux the interface with the rail and then use the resistance soldering machine to make the joints.  The rivets are just the right length and the resistance solderer only makes contact with gentle pressure.

I deliberately printed the guard rails and bits of the frog as a) these areas get polished when cleaning track but they shouldn't be, and b) it enables detailing to be easily added.  The guard rails are slightly lower than the running rails so will not get cleaned.  The frog is flush at present, but one of the things to look at.  I've also captured the wide variety of rail fixings used. They are very fine and a bit vulnerable during construction, but once finished should not be subject to stress.

One of the keys here was printing rail filing jigs derived from the turnout model.  All filed rail was dead right first time more or less, though I did give one or two parts a second lick.

I'm undecided whether to simulate woodgrain in the prints.  It will be mostly wasted effort, but we'll see.  There's still some thought to go into the headrods (tiebars) as well, but many others have sorted that problem so it should be straightforward.

A fair bit or work to derive the models (1:7.5 and the Y shown here). However, very quick to print and fairly rapid and relaxed to build.  I only need 6 turnouts, so it should be quick once the last few issues are sorted out.

That may be the most impressive non-commercial track I've ever seen. Adequate. -- Russ

Nice fine bit of rail - just as it should be - real quality
Barney

Amazing!

Excellent!
Too bad there isn't any commercial code 75 steel rail lie you want.
Will all 6 turnouts have the same frog number or will you construct each to fit a specific arrangement?

Fine scale modeling to say the least!

Quote from: Bill Gill on July 21, 2023, 05:49:51 AMExcellent!
Too bad there isn't any commercial code 75 steel rail lie you want.
Will all 6 turnouts have the same frog number or will you construct each to fit a specific arrangement?

Slightly frustrating on the rail as there used to be.  But one moves on.
The NZR was not big on custom track structures.  There was probably no need as the railway came first and so did not need to fit into tight spaces unless constrained by geography. Rewanui is constrained but all the turnouts are 1:7.5 other than the Y at the yard entrance.  Should be 12' swiches I think, but I've modelled the 10' version as there is a little bit of compression in the model.  So other than the Y they are all the same - other than being L/R which is trivial with printed parts.

Perfect work, Lawrence. I must remember the idea with the rivets!

Bernhard

Quote from: Bernhard on July 22, 2023, 02:59:00 AMPerfect work, Lawrence. I must remember the idea with the rivets!

Bernhard

I stumbled on them really.  Just a couple of dollars per thousand (including shipping) from our Chinese friends on AliExpress.

Lawrence,

really impressive work. I'm a bit lost about the rivets: do you solder them to the rails nefore you add the sleepers or with the sleepers in place? The latter is hard to imagine because heat would deform the printed parts, wouldn't it? And first way means to work very exactly, maybe with some kind of a gauge?

Cheers,
Volker

Quote from: Hydrostat on July 23, 2023, 05:56:58 AMLawrence,

really impressive work. I'm a bit lost about the rivets: do you solder them to the rails nefore you add the sleepers or with the sleepers in place? The latter is hard to imagine because heat would deform the printed parts, wouldn't it? And first way means to work very exactly, maybe with some kind of a gauge?

Hi Volker

Thanks, and good question.

After.

I do have a heat resistant resin, but actually I'm not using it for this (partly as it is light gray).  Using that resin with a colourant would be an option.  I could also use it as is and use a black resin for the frog and guard rails.  Possible, but more complicated, solutions. I'm assuming the rails may take the odd knock in use and thus want to have a dark base colour.

The rivets are light, but the rail is relatively heavy and needs to be heated to make the joint.  It is possible with a soldering iron, but not that reliable.  I'm using a small rivet, but a larger diameter one might be easier and would likely fit, but I don't have them to hand.  You could certainly improve the contact area between rivet and rail by changing the orientation of the rivet and/or refining the closure to the rivet.  It's possible to have the rivet head under the rail (to give a better contact area), but it's very slightly visible and I then need to close the rivets underneath. This is easily done on plain track, but trickier under special chairs.

My method is:

• assemble the turnout
• fit the rivets from beneath
• flux the rivets and quickly fill them with 'solder' (179 degree). Not much heat needed for that.
• flux the rail at each joint. From the underside, with a sharp probe in the resistance solderer press on the rivet and make the joint.  In practice I just do a few at a time. Most of the time the circuit is not made without a bit of pressure.  This way you know you have contact at least - which you don't when just using a heated iron.

The plastic does heat up and even chars slightly on the underside, but once it cools it appears to be fine.  A heavy hand will certainly ruin it, but A few test pieces refined the method. The method is very hot, but very quick.

The turnout is very robust even without soldering.  Test pieces show that some of the solder joints are very good, some less so and some do not flow at all. But sufficient are good to achieve the required result.  It is easier to add a few more rivet locations and live with a few dud connections.

This method is quick and pragmatically seems to work adequately.  If it did not, then there are certainly some things (as above) that could be changed to improve.  I only need 6 turnouts, so I'm inclined to stop at pragmatic success.  If there were a need for many more one would certainly develop and refine methods a bit.

Can you please post a photo of the rivets you used and the source of them.  One can never have to many places to get supplies.

Quote from: Lawton Maner on July 23, 2023, 10:02:23 PMCan you please post a photo of the rivets you used and the source of them.  One can never have to many places to get supplies.

Dead right Lawton.

A visit to AliExpress.com and search for 'PCB rivets' will turn up images and plenty of sources.  They come in a variety of sizes and there's generally a dimensional drawing too. Note that a quirk of dealing with such sources is that they will often state the material as copper, when in fact it is brass.

I'm into buildings at present...

In the mid C20 many government and civic works were lit by globes with an enamelled 18" diameter shade/reflector with corrugated rim. There were a few at Rewanui (On the Liverpool mine store and the coaling stage (as in the pic) at least).

I've wondered about a method for producing them for a while (and tried etching them 20 years ago).  This time I printed some little press tools and formed some annealed shim brass. They are a tiny detail, but should look good in situ.

It's a good example of indirect uses for the 3D printer.

Inspirational. -- Russ

This mine store building was on the backshunt at Rewanui.  I've repositioned it, and mirrored in half relief as a view blocker to disguise trains departing the layout to the fiddle yard.  The 3/4 view of chimney and office is the one most will see.  The long side with 3 windows faces the track.  I understand the void under the office was for storing pipe etc.

The building's basically a 1.5mm styrene frame clad in 0.5mm sheet both sides with various 3D printed bits added on.  Window frames are laser cut card.

A rewarding building that was quite quick to do thanks to the integration of digital techniques.  Painting and finishing took most of the time.

Anyone wishing a more detailed description can find it here:
https://nzfinescale.com/youre-in-my-way/

That turned out pretty adequately, didn't it? Especially the texture. -- Russ

Quote from: finescalerr on September 04, 2023, 12:21:45 AMThat turned out pretty adequately, didn't it? Especially the texture. -- Russ

I browsed Youtube for some pointers on painting concrete, combined with past experience and some ideas.  I'm pretty pleased with the result.  I could probably play further, but this is a partly hidden bookend and I have other things to get on with.

Here's the real thing in '87, a few years after it became disused.  It has gone down hill a lot since then

The need to exhibit the layout in the near future has got me back on to scenery.

There's a bit of a balancing act between installing scenic bits, bridges and laying track, to avoid having to work over fragile structures and the necessity of having a bridge before track can be laid over it.  The general plan has been to work from back to front, and I'm more or less up to the point directly behind the bridge.

These are pics taken mainly to assess how things are going.  The bridge and foreground trees are just placed at present.  A bit more work behind the bridge and I can fix it permanently and connect up the track.  But for now I'm playing around with the area behind and under the bridge as work here needs to be done while the bridge is removable.

The prototype pic shows the bridge 30-40 years later. The handrail treatment is a little different and the river scoured a little deeper.  As is the way with a long term project like this, much research has accumulated since commitments were made 15+ years ago.  The bridge is based on a survey drawing and the  bridge was built before many of the photos showed up.  The scenery was based on site visits, but these were AFTER a large landslide wiped out most of the bridge, so the historical topology modelled was a mix of guesswork and pragmatism.  At this end of the layout there is serious compression required, which limits the depth that can be reached. 

So the bridge itself is a scale model, but departs in some details from the prototype. But this part of the layout is in the zone between scale model and more or less fictitious fabrication. The majority of the trackwork and key structures will be scale representations, but outside that I see the modelling in a more artistic way, framing the scene.

The foreground will be mainly grassy bank on the right with a few shrubs, while the left bank will be dense shrubs/small trees as period images show.

Are we supposed to guess what might be fictitious? Because all of it looks plausible and terrific. -- Russ

I'm liking your lamp shades. I too have searched for a way to make this kind of a lamp reflector.  I just might give your method a try.

Stuart

Quote from: Stuart on September 10, 2023, 09:17:15 PMI'm liking your lamp shades. I too have searched for a way to make this kind of a lamp reflector.  I just might give your method a try.

Stuart

Let me know if you need any more info.  I can email you the stls if my version suits you.

The scenery is absolutely stunning so far, and the bridge is excellent. Such an unusual design, too. I like the contrast between the rusty steel braces and the wooden timbers.

Quote from: Ray Dunakin on September 11, 2023, 11:04:06 PMThe scenery is absolutely stunning so far, and the bridge is excellent. Such an unusual design, too. I like the contrast between the rusty steel braces and the wooden timbers.

Thanks Ray.  The overall style is pretty common here - this one is unusual in that it is decked to take vehicles and pedestrians.

I built the bridge a long time ago, so it's having a bit of weathering before being permanently fixed in the next day or two.  All the timbers are marked with year of installation and the piles with year and depth driven.  This is carved in the timbers and highlighted by the red oxide paint patches.  One of those details nobody will notice unless they were a bridge inspector or I tell them :-).

It's a good thing I can make those trees quickly.  There are a LOT of them.

Quote from: Lawrence@NZFinescale on September 10, 2023, 10:01:38 PM

Quote from: Stuart on September 10, 2023, 09:17:15 PMI'm liking your lamp shades. I too have searched for a way to make this kind of a lamp reflector.  I just might give your method a try.

Stuart

Let me know if you need any more info.  I can email you the stls if my version suits you.

If you don't mind, that would be very helpful. Thanks.

Stuart
stuartgfx@hotmail.com

Superb modelling with fantastic detailing
Barney

The layout has reached the stage of a mostly complete diorama on 1 baseboard.

The bridge is fixed in place and the mine store is bedded in (though removable).  There is still some vegetation to go in on the far side of the near track and I'm still pottering on the foreground.  This image taken to assess progress as it is easier to be critical of an image on screen than the real thing.

It's good to get this bit done as it it will serve as an anchor to the rest of the project and I can move from here in one direction. This module has also served to perfect the techniques and materials that I'll use going forward.  Not that I don't see improvements, but there's also a need to maintain consistency. 

Do you actually think there's much room for improvement? -- Russ

Yep.  It never stops really.  Every model is better than the one before.

Things like this I like to revisit.  It's my nature to be less than satisfied, so I like to come back when I've had chance to calm a bit and reassess whether I think it's as good as it could be.  I post photos and listen to criticism, and if I can do better then I have a go.  This little scene is developing, so once the trees go in behind the line I'll see if the foreground works to my satisfaction.  Plus I'll revisit prototype pics and decide whether I have the right look.

Overall though I am pretty happy with the whole thing, as it does capture the feel of the place.

Here's a couple of rare things in a single image.

Yours truly and the magnum opus set up outside on a spring day.  There's not enough clear space inside to erect the whole thing so this was a chance to test fit everything before taking it to a show.

The sceniked module is obvious.  To the right of it is the fiddle yard structure (a turntable mounts on top of this).  The rest of the blank canvas is where the station yard will be.  The general topology is roughed in blue styrofoam, and most of the structures are done to some extent. I'll be running some temporary track and displaying in progress models on the unfinished bits. The overhead structures will carry a pelmet and lighting.

It all went pretty well, but did turn up the need for one or two extra fittings and highlighted what needs to go in the tool box.

Wow! That'll be quite impressive!

If and when you complete it, the result should be most satisfactory.

I must chide you for your avatar because it suggests you are younger than the rest of us while, in reality, you are the same age! Your wisdom and experience long ago gave you away of course. Besides, we're all model builders so, with a little plaster, paint, and pastels we can backdate ourselves. -- Russ

It's the beard. I am actually much younger than the rest of you.

Twice recently I've had strangers tell me that I "look like the old guy in Jurassic Park."

It's been a while between updates...

Recently I've returned to Wa217.  Not that I ever exactly left it, but there was a bit of development required, fresh castings to do, and thus nothing visible to report.

As a young lad I grew up with images of UK steam locomotives, where pipework is typically minimal or tucked tidily away.  NZR locomotives are rather different.  Piping for air brake and conduit for electrical systems is external in addition to the usual feed water, sand and live steam connections.

From a modelling perspective I like the challenge of the plumbing.  Historically I've done it (as I imagine most do) from wire fitted to various castings that need drilling out.  There are two problems with this.  Firstly, drilling out is far from easy to do and secondly getting entire runs from one piece of wire, entangled as it may be with other runs, can be difficult.

So for this loco I thought I'd try using fine tube for the pipework.  Albion Alloys manufacture brass tube in 0.1mm increments with 0.1mm wall.  So for 1" electrical conduit the 0.4mm (0.2mm bore) was ideal.  Most of the brake pipework needed to be 1 1/4" (0.5/0.3mm).  In principle, using the tubing gets around my two problems.  First off I did my castings with spigots to mate with the tubing bore.  Not entirely straightforward casting 0.2mm spigots, but it did work.  They were, in fact, drawn at 0.3mm dia.  The print/cast process wasted them away a bit to around 0.25mm, so I had to relieve the tube end with a root canal reamer, but this did result in a nice positive fit.  For the brake part castings spigots were a nominal 0.4mm but came out somewhat less and were dealt with the same way.

It is hard to bend tube without collapsing the walls, but I achieved this by either fitting some fishing monofilament up the bore or brass wire.  The monofilament is useful as it can be removed after forming if needed.  The brass wire will be permanent, but this is good much of the time anyway. One just needs to be careful not to turn the tube into rod, which would make fitting to the casting spigots impossible. It is very easy to butt join the tube with a wire spigot to strengthen the joint, so there is no need to do runs in one piece.  The joints are also all quite strong considering their size.

The photos show the approach worked very well.  Low stress, as there was little drilling to do, and the whole fitting process was simplified by not needing to do runs in one piece.  The pipes linking the front of the air reservoirs are cast in.

At this stage of assembly there is still a bit of extra solder here and there, but sand blasting will clean that up later.  The list of things to do on the body is getting quite short.  The chassis list is longer but everything is on hand for it, so hopefully the loco will progress a bit faster from here on.

The rear cowcatcher is new from last time too.  I realised belatedly that it is wider than the front one so I had to do a new pattern and casting for the thing.

I really do admire your precise work!

Cheers,
Volker

Lawrence, That is a lot of very nice work.

You continue to impress us. -- Russ

I am always delighted with your little works of art!

Quote from: Lawrence@NZFinescale on January 29, 2024, 06:06:03 PMSo for this loco I thought I'd try using fine tube for the pipework.  Albion Alloys manufacture brass tube in 0.1mm increments with 0.1mm wall.  So for 1" electrical conduit the 0.4mm (0.2mm bore) was ideal.  Most of the brake pipework needed to be 1 1/4" (0.5/0.3mm).  In principle, using the tubing gets around my two problems.  First off I did my castings with spigots to mate with the tubing bore.  Not entirely straightforward casting 0.2mm spigots, but it did work.  They were, in fact, drawn at 0.3mm dia.  The print/cast process wasted them away a bit to around 0.25mm, so I had to relieve the tube end with a root canal reamer, but this did result in a nice positive fit.  For the brake part castings spigots were a nominal 0.4mm but came out somewhat less and were dealt with the same way.

It is hard to bend tube without collapsing the walls, but I achieved this by either fitting some fishing monofilament up the bore or brass wire.  The monofilament is useful as it can be removed after forming if needed.  The brass wire will be permanent, but this is good much of the time anyway. One just needs to be careful not to turn the tube into rod, which would make fitting to the casting spigots impossible. It is very easy to butt join the tube with a wire spigot to strengthen the joint, so there is no need to do runs in one piece.  The joints are also all quite strong considering their size.

The photos show the approach worked very well.  Low stress, as there was little drilling to do, and the whole fitting process was simplified by not needing to do runs in one piece.  The pipes linking the front of the air reservoirs are cast in.

At this stage of assembly there is still a bit of extra solder here and there, but sand blasting will clean that up later.  The list of things to do on the body is getting quite short.  The chassis list is longer but everything is on hand for it, so hopefully the loco will progress a bit faster from here on.

The rear cowcatcher is new from last time too.  I realised belatedly that it is wider than the front one so I had to do a new pattern and casting for the thing.

Pure eyecandy.

Absolutely mind blowing stuff- A True Artist in more ways than one
Barney

Quote from: Barney on January 31, 2024, 12:53:32 PMAbsolutely mind blowing stuff- A True Artist in more ways than one
Barney

Thanks Barney.

More of a technician I'm afraid. 

Pure jewellery. Almost a shame to paint it.

Magnificent! I love the look of all that piping. Also thanks for the tip about Albion Alloys. I just ordered some of their micro tubes.

Lawrence, I am really impressed by this detailed work.

Bernhard

A bit more work on Wa217, which I can now present on it's wheels

I fixed and quartered up the wheelsets.  It was all jigged and ran beautifully first time with tight clearances on the crankpins.  As it should, but it's always a relief to get right.  It's an area I've struggled with over the years, but I've now engineered out almost all the variables to avoid having to hold my tongue in any particular position.

There are still temporary pins in the valve gear and some screws that need shortening.

As may have been mentioned before, the rods are cast with slots into which separate cast brasses can be fitted.  This allows for a very nice looking rod that can be adjusted accurately for length in a jig.  This works really well for larger locomotives, but a bit more of a fiddle on the Wa where everything is a little smaller.  Crankpins are turned on the cast wheels, so are accurate.  They will be retained by M1 screws.  The leading crankpin is more or less how they will look when done, albeit with the screw head filled flush.

This is a split frame loco, so isolating everything requires some thought.  It's an evolving method that I've played with a lot, so not too much of a headache.  The live frames only extend from the footsteps to mid-cylinder.  The frames at either end being part of the body.  This gives a strong structure at headstock/cowcatcher and the frame join is relatively easy to hide.  The trucks were tricky with metal wheels so I turned up some delrin pinpoint bearings rather than the usual brass.  The truck frames should be neutral, but everything is rather tight so I'll have to check and fettle to make sure there are no shorts on curves.

The next job will be adding the brake gear, another potential electrical isolation nightmare that has vexed me in the past.  It is also complicated by the fact that the stretchers are curved up and over the centre rail.  This precludes using thin PC board for isolation.  On the plus side, if the shoes touch the wheels it can only improve pickup.  Brake spacing is something to get right though as close spacing looks great, but experience shows that scale brakes are VERY effective if they are too close.

This time around I have some new ideas that I'm confident will make this a whole lot easier.

It looks as though you face a few challenges but the model is certainly quite adequate at this stage. -- Russ

Love the detail.  An amazing web of piping you have created.

Absolutly perfect in implementation but also a lovely subject! 

That's quite a challenge, but it sounds like you have it well thought out and under control. It's looking terrific.

Make no mistake, this is of course an absolutely beautiful model.
But I can not resist playing the devils advocate for a second:
A pattern maker like the late Cliff Grandt or Charles H. Brommer would have made sure you could count the individual leaf spring blades above the pilot wheelset...

Quote from: Hauk on February 09, 2024, 07:24:38 AMMake no mistake, this is of course an absolutely beautiful model.
But I can not resist playing the devils advocate for a second:
A pattern maker like the late Cliff Grandt or Charles H. Brommer would have made sure you could count the individual leaf spring blades above the pilot wheelset...

It is a bit of a disappointment...

And it does raise a philosophical point.  In the CAD model leaves are separate - but the leaves are 3/8" or 0.15mm scale.  I've accentuated the edges as you can see.  Even so the groove representing the edges of the leaves is only a voxel or two deep.  Essentially I'm trying to resolve details that are at the limit of resolution.  If I could get the detail super sharp, I'd also be getting super sharp voxel/layer resolution which isn't necessarily an improvement as smooth surfaces end up stepped.

Similar springs done at 1:48 (3rd image) as opposed to 1:64 resolve beautifully.  The 1:64 springs do resolve if you magnify the image (attached) just not as sharply. It's not the best casting either.  But even a good one barely shows separation.

In fact, looking at images of the real thing the spring leaves do not look dramatically separate either.  So you start getting into the realm of art, accentuating detail so that the eye is pleased, but the model is not technically accurate. The whole thing becomes a bit subjective. This is from a 35u resolution printer.  My next upgrade will likely be to something around 20u, which would produce better base prints.

When I weather it I may be able to bring out those subtle separate laminations :-)

Now Thats Quality !!
After time Leaf springs on Greasy /oily things become one its only the ends that show it has separate leaves or is it leafs ! So viewing from a reasonable distance I don't really think you would notice - This is from my experience of many many years ago as an apprentice car/truck mechanic (Grease monkey I don't think its aloud to call the upstarts that now )
If You had not made the early morning tea got the sandwiches / toast that morning you was put on Grease monkey spring greasing  or oil can crushing duties. 
Barney

Following Hauk's cruel ( ;) ) critique I feel the urge to defend my pattern making...

20 odd years ago I did a kit for the Baldwin Wb.  This was before 3D prints were readily available, of course.  The Wb has a similar truck structure, which was fabricated from brass as a casting pattern.  In the  image castings shown tack soldered to a bar to facilitate drilling. I've done similar patterns for other things, typically etching the component parts to make life easier.  You can readily see the leaf separation in the springs ( :P ).

Ironically, in the Wb these springs are behind the wheels so are not really visible anyway.

Using a print/cast process to produce castings is relatively fast and easy.  There's no shrinkage to deal with, no constraints/cost of moulds, and considerably more flexibility in design.  But there are limitations to consider.  So I'm greatly enamoured of the process as it increases the volume and scope of what I can do, but I am a bit disappointed with those springs.  I might have to rework a better set for Hauk.

I suppose you could do that but maybe you should remember the scale of your model and then read Barney's post again. -- Russ

Quote from: finescalerr on February 11, 2024, 12:53:12 PMI suppose you could do that but maybe you should remember the scale of your model and then read Barney's post again. -- Russ

Oh I know.  Refer to the first post in this thread too, which points out that each model is part of a far larger whole so pragmatism demands the odd fine detail be left out. I do agree with Barney too, but on more carefully viewing some photos, discrete leaves are quite clear.

However a) I'm curious if a few tweaks will improve things, and b) This is a 'commercial' ( ;D ) pilot, so tweaks are appropriate.  I don't plan on replacing the trucks on 217, but I have 137 and 289 to do, so worth the 30 minutes or so to dabble with the model. I've done it, so I'll proceed to a test print.  I won't cast them unless the print is an improvement.

Some small improvement perhaps.

This is the resin that will go away as the sacrificial 'wax' for investment casting.

Spring definition is there, but as can be seen it's hardly as visible as the layering from the printer.  The latter is essentially invisible in the casting, so not surprising the spring definition is poor as well.

Russ is quite right though.  These really are very small and at anything less than extreme magnification they are fit for purpose.

Wa 217 with brakes fitted up.

A chance to try some new ideas that worked pretty well.

At the top the brake levers are free to pivot on 0.5mm wire shafts set in short lengths of tube soldered through the frames.  The 0.5mm wire is crimped inside the frames to retain things.  Levers and shoes are live to the wheels and frames.

The rodding is neutral.  There's a 0.6mm hole at the base of the lever into which is fitted an insulating PTFE (Teflon) bush.  The spigots at the end of the cross shafts are 0.3mm.  The cross shafts in this case are 0.5mm tube, though in future I'll modify my etch so they are the correctly shaped flat bar - not that you can see them.  The bushes are made from PTFE tube that is nominally 0.6mm od/0.3mm id.  In fact, it's a tad larger on both dimensions so it's a firm fit in the lever and free on the spigot, which is ideal.  Very easy to do as the tube is forced into the lever and trimmed to length with a scalpel.  The rodding assembly is easily removable, but sits in place securely.  This is an area where I've struggled in the past for a neat solution, and this is pretty much ideal on all fronts.

Everything still goes around, although there's a bit of fettling to do.  The next job will be to fit the operating cylinder and cranks.  The idea is to set things up so the shoes are quite close to the wheels, but avoiding any friction. 

It's coming together nicely. The precise detail suggests it could be 100% larger. -- Russ

Looks great!

That is really impressive!

Bernhard

Yes, Like Bernhard said: That is really impressive. Not just the appearance, but also the method of installing it.

Hi Lawrence.
Those castings look both beautifully cast and very well thought out.
Great.
cheers Kim

Back to modelling West Coast (NZ) things...

As is often the case a bit of distraction has come along.  We377 has featured here before, but I really need We198 as well.  These projects take time though and some things need to be prepared, sent away or otherwise gestated.  Hence some preparatory work for a build some way in the future. Some of the castings appeared in another thread, but I've also been working on resin prints for the cab.

The We firebox is a bit of a challenge as I have not unearthed photos and exact drawings have not emerged.  So this is based on standard practice, interpolation of drawings that are to hand and some sketches from a gentlemen who used to drive them back in the day.  Most likely it is not entirely accurate, but should be fairly close to.  I'm not too worried as it is tucked away largely out of view.

The CAD model here is a slightly earlier version than the print.  The print isn't perfect either and I've made a few changes, but I wanted to use some rejects to play around with some painting ideas.  The firebox diameter is around 23mm (less than 1"), so it isn't very big. I find actually seeing the thing, let alone getting a brush into all the crannies, can be quite a challenge.

Many of the steam pipes were lagged with asbestos string.  I mixed a generous amount of talc into the acrylic paint to make something that looks a little softer than unlagged finish.  This worked quite well, but it's a bit hard to manage and next time I'll do it earlier in the sequence to make correcting any mishaps a little easier.

There are things to improve but, as a test piece, I've invested enough in to it.

I doubt anyone could do better in that scale. -- Russ

Quote from: finescalerr on March 10, 2024, 09:13:07 PMI doubt anyone could do better in that scale. -- Russ

Maybe, but I'll keep trying.

Hi Lawrence

If I understood correctly, this is a resin part, not a brass one! If so, it seems to me, you have some small and smallest diameters there, e.g. the spokes of the handwheels.
At my current work I had tried not to go smaller then 0.5 mm at parts that are not connected to a wall etc. as most of such parts had broken away while diconnecting them from the supports.
Are you able to print smaller then 0.5mm?

Cheers, Peter

Hi Peter

Yes, resin.

0.5mm is a pretty good working minimum value, but smaller is possible.  Some of the pipework here is 0.3mm, some details less.  You'll appreciate that this only works in restricted orientations, short spans and with support.  The same constraints as always - just more so.

Resin choice has a bearing too.

I'm prepared to do things on backheads that I'd avoid in other circumstances.  While they are surprisingly robust, they are far from bulletproof.  However, once done they'll be mounted in an etched metal cab, so robustness is not a major requirement.

Quote from: Lawrence@NZFinescale on March 11, 2024, 09:20:51 AMYou'll appreciate that this only works in restricted orientations, short spans and with support. The same constraints as always - just more so. Resin choice has a bearing too.

Hmmm, it seems that I really should consider purchasing a printer too. All these parameters are not in my hands and it's rather annoying making compromises here and there. :-\
Thanks for your reply!

Was that backhead printed as a single piece?

Quote from: Ray Dunakin on March 12, 2024, 10:04:10 PMWas that backhead printed as a single piece?

Normally yes, but I tried something new here and the front half of the lubricator with it's bunch of little taps was a separate part.  The lubricator is printed upside down to avoid support on all the little details. The rear of the lubricator is part of the main piece so that the pipework and mounting form correctly.

I see absolutely nothing to apologize for here! Outstanding work.

Stuart

Lawrence that's a fantastic print. Printing the lubricator upside down to avoid supports on the tiny details worked really well. And the talc/acrylic paint for the asbestos lagging is perfect.

The only thing that is a little off to me is the tiny metallic flakes in the "brass". That shouldn't be a problem, however, when the firebox is installed in the cab.

I'm probably overly aware of it only because I had a similar problem with a sign on my pharmacy. All of the paints I tried had flakes and even though the sign was HO scale, it was right on the front of the building, so very noticeable - at least to me.

After many attempts I finally covered the raised lettering with real goldleaf. That was a challenge, and wouldn't work in your situation. I haven't seen how any of the high end acrylic metallic paints look could one of those perhaps have no flakes in it?

Quote from: Bill Gill on March 14, 2024, 06:03:54 AMLawrence that's a fantastic print. Printing the lubricator upside down to avoid supports on the tiny details worked really well. And the talc/acrylic paint for the asbestos lagging is perfect.

The only thing that is a little off to me is the tiny metallic flakes in the "brass". That shouldn't be a problem, however, when the firebox is installed in the cab.

I'm probably overly aware of it only because I had a similar problem with a sign on my pharmacy. All of the paints I tried had flakes and even though the sign was HO scale, it was right on the front of the building, so very noticeable - at least to me.

After many attempts I finally covered the raised lettering with real goldleaf. That was a challenge, and wouldn't work in your situation. I haven't seen how any of the high end acrylic metallic paints look could one of those perhaps have no flakes in it?

Full frame camera, decent macro lens and focus stacking will reveal every flaw!  This one was always intended as a test piece, so I didn't spend as much time as I might otherwise have.  Stuck inside a cab, any additional effort would likely never be seen anyway - but that's not why we do this stuff :-).  On the plus side, a piece that looks OK under these conditions generally looks really good on the layout.

In the context of results from modelling paints, I was quite pleased with the brass, but I completely agree that it doesn't work for a show off piece.  I have some other things to try, that initial results suggest will be better.

It's been a one forward, two back kind of week with the printer, but my last batch of prints are where I want them to be.  I'll work up another couple for your perusal.

A tip From one of the greatest Loco painters - defiantly NOT ME but a friend going way back - and one of the best professional painters of our times - For metallic finishes first spray a matt grey bass coat - then lightly dry brush the metallic paint over the casting you end up with an amazing finish for  brass or steel he always used an Enamel paint for the dry brushing Humbrol polished steel or brass being one of the best products to use - if the dry brushing process is done correctly by that I mean a DRY BRUSH no pigment will show - some people have better results using a short flat stumpy brush others use a longer haired flat brush Give it a go it does work
Barney   

Quote from: Barney on March 14, 2024, 03:43:19 PMA tip From one of the greatest Loco painters - defiantly NOT ME but a friend going way back - and one of the best professional painters of our times - For metallic finishes first spray a matt grey bass coat - then lightly dry brush the metallic paint over the casting you end up with an amazing finish for  brass or steel he always used an Enamel paint for the dry brushing Humbrol polished steel or brass being one of the best products to use - if the dry brushing process is done correctly by that I mean a DRY BRUSH no pigment will show - some people have better results using a short flat stumpy brush others use a longer haired flat brush Give it a go it does work
Barney   

As it happened the old Moet tin in the bottom drawer, that holds my aged Humbrol collection, did yield a tin of met brass in good condition.  And yes, it did work quite well.  My reservations in this case are painting the matt grey and dry-brushing around the detail will be tricky.  But, honestly, anything is tricky so I may yet return to it.

Think of it another way the figure painters /military modellers have got it to a T - one of them told me "think brass buttons " most  use the dry brush method some used Gold pigment crushed finer then the base coat / colour is touched up around the dry brushing gold / brass the dry brush is often 2mm /3mm wide the figure people  really are just on another planet
Barney 

Another possibility for a brass-like color without metal flakes might be to first apply an Alclad finish and then apply a transparent, non granular yellow wash over it. I've seen simulated "gold" finishes done with a transparent yellow over a chrome finish that looked gold.

I have no experience with Alclad, but its variety of shades and colors could have a suitable base that would look like brass. ALC-108 looks like a possibility.
https://alclad2.com/finishes/regular/

PY150 (Nickel Azo Yellow) is a transparent yellow that's very lightfast. It could create a belieavble brass look on top of some silver-ish base.
https://www.parkablogs.com/picture/yellows-made-py150-py151-py153-py154-and-py159#:~:text=PY150%20goes%20by%20many%20names,option%20as%20a%20primary%20yellow.

 I've read that acrylic paint adheres well on top of Aclad finish.

Hmm, first I did not recognised those ,,flakes"; I was simply impressed by the quality oft he print. Second we have to be aware of the dimensions!
But now that we're already talking about brass-like colors I am very interested how to do that in a convincing way as I have to paint brass acetylene lamps on my Büssing too.

So I found this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LkRYmTB08U

Ok, looks promising!? But let us be honest, this shaving brush methode works (well!) on a solid and strong figure but not on a tiny print with even smaller pipes and wheels. 

And... I also haven't tried it out myself!!! ;)

I'll get back to painting backheads shortly, but in the meanwhile the flameplate (or the valve chest) often had oil cans placed on them, to warm the oil for reduced viscosity.

A bit of searching and asking revealed that the "coffeepot" (as it was known by the crews) or "oil kettle" (as it's referred to on NZR drawing x12492) held steam oil which is inconveniently viscous when cool. There was a different can for bearing oil, which was less thick.

They are really small in 1:64, but formed really well. Manufactured in tin, it will provide some colour contrast on my flameplate.

Here's my version 2 on the We firebox.

The print's been improved a bit and all the handwheels and details are correctly formed.  The straight air brake has been removed (as it was not fitted until 1948), and the brake handle has been placed in a running position. I've added the coffee pot to the flameplate just for fun.  I found some reference photos so I feel the colouring is more representative.

Presented here on a Humbrol tin to illustrate the actual size.  I'd suggest evaluating the overall result at modest magnification.  It certainly breaks up a bit at extreme magnification, but that's not really the point for me here.

Brass work this time is Rub n Buff (Grecian gold), let down with a bit of dirty brown enamel wash to make it brushable.  I gleaned this suggestion from Chuck Doan.  I'm more pleased with the colour and the flake is not noticable until you really blow things up.  I'm not sure exactly what went wrong this time, but my primer didn't really harden off properly, and the model suffered in handling and my attempts to buff the brass.  If I can get a harder base the Rub n Buff will burnish up a bit better.

The resin is also a bit soft.  Next time I'll rig up something to hold the model to reduce handling and exercise a bit more patience.

I still see this one as a learning piece, so I haven't spent as much time as I might on final tidying.  If I persist with the Rub n Buff, I'll need to make sure I can remove the extraneous gold dust.

So that is a second "pilot model" of the backhead? If so, your third attempt will be a home run. Most satisfactory. -- Russ

Quote from: finescalerr on March 17, 2024, 12:30:43 PMSo that is a second "pilot model" of the backhead? If so, your third attempt will be a home run. Most satisfactory. -- Russ

Err, yes.

The work involved in producing the digital file is quite large (although individual parts are mostly standard and recycled)
One of the good things about posting pics is you get useful feedback on both the modelling and the prototypical accuracy. In fact, one of the members here has a reputation for producing the workshop drawings after the model has been published.  Thus I've been trained to exhibit work in progress early so I can benefit from information arriving before the final model is complete.
The work in optimising the file and it's printing is not that arduous, but consumes time to actually run prints.
The net result of all that is a ready supply of prints or at least the means.
Actually painting them is not all that time consuming, and is the fun bit in any case.
So whether they end up here or not, there will likely be another one or two. I still need to give Bill's brass method a go for starters. Given that the etching artwork for the loco is still incomplete the cab interior is rather more advanced than is sensible :-)

Well things are looking better with the brass finish - most painters will always say its one of the most difficult things to achieve - but saying all that I think the forum has come up with some great thoughts on achieving this issue and I'm sure their will be many more to come - perhaps we should open a new file under painting instead of invading your space on this fantastic model subject
Your workmanship involving 3D printing is just amazing - way beyond me ever understanding this form of magic and especially in such a small scale - I recently had some 3D printing done by a company and it was for a large scale 1/16th - it was for some coupling pockets (I think that's what you call them  ) see my Union gas engine critter thy were a total  mess it took me ages to clean them up !!

Just a thought would it have been better to have done the back head first making the painting of the large brass bit easer to paint and then added the controls or is this not the way to do it - as I say I know nothing about this form of "Magic" and I most appreciate your fantastic Amazing way of creating such delightful models
Shot below of one I had in the oven earlier - Thats a joke Russ !!!!
Barney
signed up agin for my flower arranging class again !

A few thoughts on Barney's comments:

In the austere 1940's, on very minor lines, I doubt the brass finish was kept as pristine as today's preserved lines, so mirror finish is not my aim.  Having said that achieving a good finish and then weathering it would be my preferred route.
3d printing parts at this small size is all about support.  Generally, designing assemblies with painting in mind is a good idea but here having a single part removes many nightmares, and is the only approach I can see working.  Painting is not as bad as you might think as there is clearance between parts in most cases so it's possible to get a brush around and behind. The main issue with the brass clothing is that any technique requiring buffing, large brushes etc is a bit impractical.

The bottom line with this particular sub-project is that I could easily live with either version so far presented on the grounds that it's a mostly hidden item that will not be available for close inspection.  On the other hand I'm interested in improving my skills so that such items will stand alone and they are fun little things to play with. Once developed I can turn them out 6-10 at a time, so it is not a major investment to dabble with a few.  That's quite a contrast to the issues I faced when assembling such things from castings, etchings and bits of wire.

Lawrence,
The second test backhead is looking even better and the 'coffeepot'on the flame plate is a neat touch.

If you go with the gold Rub n Buff for the brass, could you apply a thin layer with a tiny makeup sponge instead of a brush and then buff it with a tiny piece of chamois on the end of a stick?

Rub n Buff is metallic pigment in carnuba wax, so any stray spots of gold that don't simply wipe off can be carefully removed with a toothpick dipped in alcohol if you don't disolve any acrylic paint.

Thanks Bill

Diluting the Rub n Buff made it quite brushable - which worked well.  I didn't have chamois, but used a bit cut from an old cycling glove - synthetic 'chamois'.  The days when I had real chamois around are long gone, but I'll look out some fine leather. I suppose I could go into the hills and shoot one.  I'll try sticking it to a bit of balsa as that should leave the paint alone.

Quote from: Lawrence@NZFinescale on March 16, 2024, 07:38:52 PMA bit of searching and asking revealed that the "coffeepot" (as it was known by the crews) or "oil kettle" (as it's referred to on NZR drawing x12492) held steam oil which is inconveniently viscous when cool. There was a different can for bearing oil, which was less thick.

They are really small in 1:64, but formed really well. Manufactured in tin, it will provide some colour contrast on my flameplate.

Lovely little piece of detail. What is the the diameter of that handle?

Thanks for the info on 3D printing I now have a better understanding about the support that is required  and how to produce it
You are doing a great job of a small model with the prototype at the top of the list
Thanks again
 Barney

Quote from: Hauk on March 18, 2024, 01:52:15 AMLovely little piece of detail. What is the the diameter of that handle?

It's a funny shape.  Should be a 'D' section on the grasping side, but otherwise sheet - which obviously wouldn't resolve.  So it's scale width and a shape I hoped would look as narrow as possible, but be meaty enough to actually resolve.  No real science, and fortunately it worked first time. Handle section shown in the image.

During printing these fine wires are prone to wander around a bit due to their flexibility and thus the actual printed dimensions are likely a bit different

I had a bit of a Christmas morning sort of experience on Saturday as a package of etching appeared on the doorstep.  It quickly turned into that sort of Christmas when you get socks rather than toys...

Amongst other things I'd etched a We locomotive.  These projects are long term and this was version 1, so some problems were anticipated.  Unfortunately there was some issue and the etchings for the superstructure did not reflect my artwork.  Fortunately all the major parts were OK, or at least salvageable.  So as they needed to be redone, I thought I'd prove the parts as there is little point in getting replacements with errors.  The etch contans alternative parts for different locomotives/periods.

It all went together really well.  There are a few issues that need more relaxed tolerance and one or two things that can be improved, but on the whole a very buildable locomotive body (this is a solid day's work spread over 3 days).  It's a quick proving without great care taken, but the design ensures almost all soldering is from the inside so it's nice and tidy.  One innovation I tried was to make the cab roof part of the cab interior assembly.  This worked very well and gives a secure roof that also stiffens the interior. The backhead shown earlier in this thread will be very visible.

This one will be parked for a bit while I get back to Wa217 and other things and await the reworked parts.

On my best day I couldn't turn out anything as good as that reject. -- Russ

Quote from: finescalerr on May 06, 2024, 12:30:05 AMOn my best day I couldn't turn out anything as good as that reject. -- Russ

My rejects are some of my best work!

The 3 'T's. Tricks, tools and techniques.  Design makes a huge difference too. I could show you pretty easily. I've had my wife build my kits to prove a point, and my son had a go soldering up etches when he was about 5 years old. It's not hard at all, but you do need to know the methods.  Nobody reads my instructions of course.

I had to fret out some of those windows by hand - you'll see on the etch they haven't etched through.

I still remember the feeling when I unpacked my first sheet of etchings.
I truly felt like the king of modelling, ignoring completly that all praise was really due to the etcher.
And soon enough all my design mistakes raised their ugly heads...

But after a few generations of etches I started to get things right. I can see no reason that all the good people on this forum should not be able to achive at least a good results.

I've studied litle packets of etched kits hanging on pegs near the checkout counter at a craft store, wondering if they might include any little bits that I could make use of on my layout. But I've never dreamed of designing custom parts and getting them etched. Really impressive to see.   

Quote from: Hauk on May 06, 2024, 01:11:22 AMI still remember the feeling when I unpacked my first sheet of etchings.
I truly felt like the king of modelling, ignoring completly that all praise was really due to the etcher.
And soon enough all my design mistakes raised their ugly heads...

But after a few generations of etches I started to get things right. I can see no reason that all the good people on this forum should not be able to achive at least a good results.

I felt exactly the same!!

I didn't start with complete locomotives of course.  Simple parts to start with, moving into things like semaphore signals, graduating to wagons and then to locomotives.  At each step you learn something and accumulate little innovations and tricks you can use in subsequent projects.  There are lessons in the things that don't work so well too.

As with castings and prints, I do etching for others as well.  It's quite useful for me to do small outside projects as they can fill up space on sheets to make the process more viable.

Quote from: Lawrence@NZFinescale on May 06, 2024, 11:50:05 AM

Quote from: Hauk on May 06, 2024, 01:11:22 AMI still remember the feeling when I unpacked my first sheet of etchings.
I truly felt like the king of modelling, ignoring completly that all praise was really due to the etcher.
And soon enough all my design mistakes raised their ugly heads...

But after a few generations of etches I started to get things right. I can see no reason that all the good people on this forum should not be able to achive at least a good results.

I felt exactly the same!!

I didn't start with complete locomotives of course.  Simple parts to start with, moving into things like semaphore signals, graduating to wagons and then to locomotives.  At each step you learn something and accumulate little innovations and tricks you can use in subsequent projects.  There are lessons in the things that don't work so well too.

As with castings and prints, I do etching for others as well.  It's quite useful for me to do small outside projects as they can fill up space on sheets to make the process more viable.

In the hubris of my youth, I did of course start with a locomotive! The sheet of etchings looked smashing, but in reality it was just a collection of parts that was almost impossible to build. For the second generation of etchings I did my homework and learned te basics of folding lines, tap/slots connections and indexing holes. Using these concepts I was able to make a decent kit that could be built with reasonable effort. A third generation of etchings was made after discovering that using two different sheet thicknesses (0.3mm and 0,5mm) would be benficial.

I really encourage people that still havent tried to design their own etchings to give it a try. And I can think of no one better to work with than Lawrence for a first project.

A wonderful idea in theory. In practice, though, I'd commission Lawrence to build the whole model for me. Heck, if I had more money, I'd keep him on retainer! -- Russ

Quote from: finescalerr on May 07, 2024, 01:43:44 PMA wonderful idea in theory. In practice, though, I'd commission Lawrence to build the whole model for me. Heck, if I had more money, I'd keep him on retainer! -- Russ

Thanks for the love, but my productivity would soon disappoint :-)

This etched plate is a small work of art in itself.

Bernhard

Another one that takes your breath away - big time
Barney

It's been a while since I updated.  The attached video shows layout progress.

There's a number of things going on:

• Track laying is done.  Almost all the yard trackage will be buried in ballast so I've avoided sleepers for much of it to simplify ballasting.
• I've been playing with DCC Ex which makes servos easy to use.  Turnouts and uncouplers use these.  There's also some tricky custom interface stuff in development which has been fun. It helps to have offspring versed in such things.
• I've refined my uncoupling mechanism to the point where it has been fully installed in the layout.

Coupling and uncoupling is virtually 100% on first attempt, and if not then the second attempt nails it.  This is really important as the layout is essentially a shunting plank at high level.  Manual uncoupling simply wouldn't work. If anyone is interested in the nuts and bolts there's a full description at https://nzfinescale.com/staying-connected-and-letting-go/

The control system is still a work in progress. It's pretty much fully functional but we keep finding things to tweak and refine (Throttle colour scheme is one of those!!).  DCC Ex is running on an Arduino Mega.  Very straightforward.  We are using a Raspberry Pi to provide the user interface and it's bespoke, not JMRI.  The actual interface is a series of webpages (track panel, throttles etc) that update in real time.  Any wifi connected device (phone/tablet etc) can control the layout and multiple connected devices are OK.  There's a huge bunch of DCC functionality that we don't need, so we've just focussed on an interface that we like and that does only what we require.  The Arduino can communicate via the I2C protocol so control of turnouts, uncoupling lighting, sensors and so on, while via the DCC Ex software is not actually using DCC protocols.  This is WAY simpler and cheaper than using stationary decoders. The throttles, of course, are entirely DCC.

Trackwork is all tested so now needs ballasting.  The uncouplers work well, but I need to fit and adjust them to all of my stock.  This isn't hard to do and in most cases will just be a hook substitution.

None of this is proper modelling of course, but it's all the necessary underlying nuts and bolts needed to make sure the models will actually perform as intended.

Why didn't you design functional 1:64 scale brakemen to handle coupling and uncoupling? Aside from that oversight, nice job. -- Russ

Quote from: finescalerr on August 29, 2024, 03:29:15 PMWhy didn't you design functional 1:64 scale brakemen to handle coupling and uncoupling? Aside from that oversight, nice job. -- Russ

Actually, that's the way we are doing it in 9mm.  :-)

With an upcoming show there's pressure to get some stuff done...

So back on to Wa 217 which is now blasted and primed.  There's some stuff to tidy, but it's nearly there.


I've also put up the reference photo of the locomotive fresh from overhaul in 1940 (Stan Rockliff photo via Graham McClare)

Very nice.  Best of luck at your upcoming show.

Stuart

That should get a lot of attention at the show. Beautiful model.

Man, the crispness of that primed engine... looking so sharp you could cut yourself on it.
It is as spotless as a 3D rendering.

Cant wait to see it painted.

Quote from: Hauk on September 16, 2024, 11:28:02 PMIt is as spotless as a 3D rendering.

First I had the same impression too. The relief-like light incidence on the dome (circle) gave the impression of a 3d rendering...
Actually it's a very clean build - unbelievable!!!

Wa-217-primed-2.jpg

One of the best results of modeling with 3D printed parts I've ever seen. Looks very good. Of course - if you take a close look, there are some print lines on the cylinder, at the air pump and so on, but this is complaining on a very high level, I've got to admit. Concerning the surfaces it's even cleaner than the prototype with all those dents in the boiler hull!

I really like the prototype a lot and the model is spot on!

Volker 

Quote from: Peter_T1958 on September 17, 2024, 06:05:14 AMThe relief-like light incidence on the dome (circle) gave the impression of a 3d rendering...

I thought that too.  I think it's probably the LED lighting bank - you are seeing individual shadows, and I should have used a diffuser.  It's focus stacked too, so may be some artifacts from that.

Quote from: Hydrostat on September 17, 2024, 07:48:47 AMOne of the best results of modeling with 3D printed parts I've ever seen. Looks very good. Of course - if you take a close look, there are some print lines on the cylinder, at the air pump and so on, but this is complaining on a very high level, I've got to admit. Concerning the surfaces it's even cleaner than the prototype with all those dents in the boiler hull!

I really like the prototype a lot and the model is spot on!

Volker 

Thanks Volker

Not 3D prints directly, as there are no prints visible in the image.  There are some structural 3d parts framing the trucks and so on, and there's a toolbox to add that will be a print too.

But all of the castings are lost resin so your comment is valid.  Newer resins and the latest printers would reduce those artifacts quite a bit.  On the other hand it's a small model and none of that is really noticeable to the naked eye.  Making models that can stand magnification is part of the fun so I'll try to do better in future :-).

I doubt anyone anywhere could do better given the model's size and the current limits of technology. All in all it is delightfully adequate. -- Russ

Awesome! That looks sharper and cleaner than many commercially made models!

This is a really impressive model that shows what is possible with today's modelling techniques.

Bernhard