Drystone Wall ..... SBS

[Andi Little]

Perhaps not an SBS but you can certainly see how your thinking was evolving, and it works very well too. I think this is the sort of task that really does evolve "in the hand" and you can never be really prescriptive about what or how you're going to achieve. Of course you have a direction and an aim but I'm sure it will remain in flux until you call it done?

A small tip if you're of a mind; - Be very careful about using "tube" greens, they are certainly not natural - and wildly overvalued chromatically.
The biggest secret of a landscape painter is that when you have a "bad" green, in order to make it more "natural" you stick a lick of red* in it ......... [*in fine art terms brown qualifies as an "Earth Red"] - so a little of that "Burnt Sienna or Burnt Umber" will do very nicely. Do not be tempted to use a pure red like Cadmium or Vermilion as these are opaque and will turn your resulting mix to mud -ironically.

[Gordon Ferguson]

A small tip if you're of a mind; - Be very careful about using "tube" greens, they are certainly not natural - and wildly overvalued chromatically.
The biggest secret of a landscape painter is that when you have a "bad" green, in order to make it more "natural" you stick a lick of red* in it ......... [*in fine art terms brown qualifies as an "Earth Red"] - so a little of that "Burnt Sienna or Burnt Umber" will do very nicely. Do not be tempted to use a pure red like Cadmium or Vermilion as these are opaque and will turn your resulting mix to mud -ironically.

Thanks Andi, just followed your advice and thats has helped to remove the slightly radioactive green I had before !

Do I take  it from your advice that most greens should be mixed from primary colours ?

[chester]

Very nice Gordon, I now anticipate some outdoor shots with what looks like great coloring.

[Andi Little]

Thanks Andi, just followed your advice and thats has helped to remove the slightly radioactive green I had before !

Do I take  it from your advice that most greens should be mixed from primary colours ?

It's a big subject Gordon, and one that you couldn't do justice to in a few short words. But there are some guidlines worth mentioning.
Use "tube" greens only as a tinting medium and try and create your Greens from Blues and Yellows.
For instance if you want a sunny day you would pick a bright yellow such as Cad' [high chroma] Yellow - using only this and mixing it with a selection of blues [Cerulean,Cobalt, Ultra',Indigo,Prussian] would give you a range of "summer" sunlit greens taking in brightly lit through to a deep shadow green - If you were to start with a dull Ochre - [low chroma] Yellow this will give you a selection of "winter" greens within the same sort of light range.
Conversely starting with a bright blue and using all your Yellows [Lemon,Cad',Gamboge,Ochre,Cad'Orange] will give you a similar range of light effects but on a rainy or overcast day..................... etc etc!
It is even possible to represent quite accurately the time of year [season] and even the time of day!!!!!

Whilst "giving it large" during lectures I'd pick on a student and identify their birthday with colour using these theories, but the really "twilight" factor was once they were shown it; 90% of them would exclaim that that was their favourite colour on the chart?? - Never really worked out the science behind that but I deeply suspect we were well into the realms of Synaesthesia [of which I'm a strong synaesthesiat].



Here's a poor shot of me I managed to find at the chalkface explaining this exact phenomena to a bunch of disinterested pre-grads', you should be able to see what's going on from the pic' as it's fairly obvious that we're working at a retro engineered level of colour identification, it's when you overlay it with a bit of theory, psychology and philosophy that it gets proper interesting.

Gordon it's a massive subject [just this single portion alone would run into several double period lectures] but I hope it's wet your appetite or at least give you cause to think on?

Ps - in true terms a tint is a hue[colour] plus white. Where as a shade is a hue plus black - but of course you NEVER put black into a painting!! .................... I could go on!

[Ray Dunakin]

Interesting description of your process, Gordon, and a good "save" from the overly dark base. I think it's often helpful to see where something went wrong and how it was corrected.

Andi, your discussion of greens is also quite interesting and I actually learned something new (including how little I know about art considering I spent most of my working life as an illustrator).

[Andi Little]

Andi, your discussion of greens is also quite interesting and I actually learned something new (including how little I know about art considering I spent most of my working life as an illustrator).

Ray ..................... yes I know! Checked out your work [old habits and all that - seriously most excellent-btw]. I was for too many years to remember a "Professore a contratto" or "lowest of the low" reading Fine Art, Psychology and Philosophy, sounds grander than it is.... main task was just to stop students from marauding through the local town for a couple of hours ................ had a bit of a bump that put paid to all that [and a lot of my modelling] so now I just scratch a crust teaching privately - and in a way happier and more content than I've ever been ........... but then again I'm also single now so that could have a lot to do with it???  

[Gordon Ferguson]

Thanks for all the very useful info Andi.

No outdoor shots Chester , woke this morning had a look at the wall decided it looked pretty awful  & promptly reached for the can of primer......


Time to practice again and try and use some of Andi's advice

[Gordon Ferguson]

No outdoor shots Chester , woke this morning had a look at the wall decided it looked pretty awful  & promptly reached for the can of primer......

But before I got there Andi had sent an e-mail with some instructions and how to's so some corrections were made.



I'm still struggling to follow Andi's advice on mixing /sorting out the greens ............. now I need to go and find some SBS on grass & moss making  

[shropshire lad]

The grass part is easy .

  Frankly , the wall is fine as it is . You will no doubt vegetate the bottom , so much of the green will disappear and you will obviously have lots growing on the top and in the cracks so you need do no more painting . Let nature do the rest !

[danpickard]

Gordon,
Excellent effort on the wall construction, with a very useful SBS, which like others, I will happily file the idea for potential future use.  This has been one of those little projects where it simply highlights that doing things the hard way, yields a far better result (kind of like you get what you pay for philosophy).  As Nick said too, there is a challenge to get the rock work looking as you want it, but consider what will be seen when done, and is the headache neccessary.  It will be one of those niggling things, that you know whats hidden under the next layer, but I normally try to wipe those ideas by thinking more about the big picture.  That said, I'd be more than happy with the result you have here now.

And Nick, nice island you have growing there!

Cheers,
Dan

[marc_reusser]

Simply looooove it!

M

[michael mott]

Gordon, now as a watercolourist and a painter I have to add to the comments that Andi has proffered, "Blue and Yellow don't make green"! I suggest that you pick up a book by the title "Blue and Yellow Don"t Make Green" by Michael Wilcox ISBN 0-89134-622-8 It is very enlightening.

I have been painting now for over 40 years and with watercolour for over 10 I use 2 reds 2 blues 2 yellows and can mix any colour that I need from these 6 pigments.

["Cadmium Red" is biased toward  orange Quinacridone Violet is a red that leans toward the violet. "Ultramarine Blue" leans or is biased towards violet. "Cerulean Blue" reflects green as well as blue and is shown pointing towards the green position. "Lemon Yellow" also reflects green. "Cadmium Yellow" is biased towards orange]

There are other schools of thought out there of course and I have had heated arguments with painters over the years. I do think that Michael Wilcox is clear and right regarding the issues of colour though.

http://www.schoolofcolor.com/

and here is a great discussion of the issue

http://nitaleland.blogspot.ca/2005/10/urban-myth-blue-and-yellow-dont-make.html

so as you can see Gordon the jury is still not out on all this.

My own personal opinion of your drystone wall is that it is a bit too green, but that is just me and my recollections of traveling from Yorkshire to Lancashire as a kid.

and I do paint.
http://www.watercolor-online.com/Articles/Stretching/Stretcher.phtml
they have my address wrong and I have pointed this out but it remains unchanged.

Michael

[Andi Little]

OH NO! ......................  Wilcox!!!!  Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!


I've had more arguments with my students because they've skipped through or read his bliddy book. You either want to paint - or you want to talk about it!!!!!

Sorry Michael - greatest of respect and all that - but you kind of stepped on one there.

[Junior]

That´s a great looking wall Gordon ! How about an outdoor picture? Would probably look even better.

Anders