European Logging 1900’s

[glaskasten]

Hello;

I am searching for information regarding central European forest industry in the hope to realistically model a Logging railroad or Walbahn

I have been following Jacq's Sawmill model development for over a year.  It has been very informative.  A number of forum members have helped Europe based Jacq Damen to understand the forestry industry in western North America in order to develop a fantastic and realistic model.  This is a fantastic community.

I do not have the modeling skills of Jacq, but I am attempting to reverse the knowledge transfer.  I am located in North America and would like to model central European logging railroad, loading site and  small sawmill(s) at around 1900 to 1930s.  I am modeling in 1:87 scale.  I have noticed via the internet that the European modeling community misrepresents the logging industry about the same as the North America modeling community does to the American logging. 

Sawmill:  It appears the Europeans utilize the Gang Saw (up-down or gatter saw) versus the band saw.  I have a found number of pictures of these gang saws, both with the historic one blade waterwheel drive up-down saw and the later multi-blade versions.   However, in 1910 would it have been possible to power 4 gang saws (for small timber) with a water wheel? 

During this search, I have also not discovered any documentation of the mechanism used for moving the timber and lumber within the mill.  In more modern times this operation is mechanized.  Prior to the mechanism – some rather graining photos show tall rail cars being used, but little definition is available as to how the log initially loaded onto the saw and how it might be rotated after a gang saw cuts a number of boards at one time.

Railroad:  Europeans did not typically use standard gauge rail in the forest. The distances were short and flexibility was warranted.  Rail was typically 600mm or 750 industrial Feldbahn.  These would terminate at a mainline station and venture off into the forest.  Some of the forest rails were temporary and would be moved when the timber was removed.   Die Neuhauser "Bockerlbahn" was only active for 2 years however the Spiegelau forest railroad was active from 1908 until 1958.

Not all timber was destined for the lumber mill.  Some timber was destined to be under ground Mine posts for the coal mines.  Timber was preferred due to the "snap" made when the post neared failure as an alert to failure.  Carloads of  short round timber is a common scene at transfer yards in central Europe  in the early part of the century. 

Timber Loading:  Mechanized timber loading onto the narrow gauge and standard gauge was limited.  Most of this was manual.  It appears that labor was readily available in the European forest.  Smaller diameter logs were loaded by rolling logs up skid log ramps.  Using small wooden wedges to prevent roll back and "Sapie" (cant hooks) to pull the logs up the ramp to load the logs onto the rail cars.  The Short mine timbers were loaded by hand by hardy workers.

Larger log loading was accomplished by chain hauling.  A tripod post was arranged with a pulley and a chain was passed around the log.  This 2:1 ratio would pass back to the tripod and then to a winch.  I do not know what these are called, but they appear in the 1930's.   Prior to this men or horses pulled from the far side of the rail car.

As you can tell I have done some research:  However, most of this is based on limited readings.  I would appreciate any references which can enhance this knowledge.

References:

Up-Down Sawmill
Taylor Mill
http://chapterhouse2.nhvt.net/users/momaw/taylormill/taylormill.htm#intro
Sturbridge Mill

Gang Saw
http://www.buntbahn.de/modellbau/viewtopic.php?p=272519#272519  Model
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAihZ2c9JWw&feature=search
Newhaus  Bockerlbahn
http://www.fischhausen-neuhaus.de/bockerl/langfassung/l_bf_neuhaus.htm

Paul

[jacq01]

 
    Paul (2)

    do you read german or french ?  I'll have a look in my archive what I can find. 

    Jacq

[marc_reusser]

Paul,

I have numerous catalogs pertaining to equipment mfg. by O&K, Henschel, etc. specifically for logging rr's in  Europe and by European operators in their colonies. Not much on the sawmill and production end....but a good amount on the rail end.  let me know if you are interested and I can scan and post some of it.

Somewhere I also have some pics of sawmill yards in France and Germany sometime around 1900-1918.....will see if I can find them.

Marc

[glaskasten]

Jacq;   I can work through German publications with the help of dict.leo.org which is very good at translating technical terms correctly.    It helps if the books have illustrations or math equations to accompany the words. 
At this time I am interested in as much material as I can digest.

BTW:  A link to a model of a O guage Holzverladeeinrichtung  (Timber Loading Device ?)


I have seen similar devices in photos of Wegscheid Station.  Those items appear to be more portable and clamp to the rail car or rail. 

Paul

[marc_reusser]

I happened to have this (and the following stuff) on my laptop for an article I was writing...as you can tell by the elephants, it's India, and not Central Europe, but the equipment is all O&K, including the crane being used to load the logs.

M

[marc_reusser]

Here are some reduced scans I had floating around on the LT. I believe they are all O&K. (sorry about the quality, but they wer only for reference while writing/researching).

[marc_reusser]

M

[marc_reusser]

Bottom two cars were specifically built for the Royal Serbian Railway Co.

[marc_reusser]

Bottom car is for transporting small quantities of cordwood or pulp wood.

[marc_reusser]

The top two cars are for Cordwood or pulpwood, the bottom two are for the transport of cut boards.

[Frederic Testard]

Paul

Here are a few links to French pages featuring surviving sawmills of the Vosges, in the north east of France.
I don't know if you read French. Based upon what is written, there still were 'haut-fer' (the French name for the oscillating sawing mechanism) in 1910 (and in fact much later).

A sawmill still running the 'old' technology on this page : http://www.mylorraine.fr/la-scierie-du-lancoir-dernier-haut-fer,article1905.html (with a video and a diaporama featuring a number of pictures).

Another sawmill in the Vosges : http://hautfer.pagesperso-orange.fr/haut-fer.html
with a plan of the mechanism : http://hautfer.pagesperso-orange.fr/images/mecanisme.jpg

An still another one : http://www.les-mille-etangs.com/pme25.htm

Another one in a slightly southern part of France : http://henriphoto.over-blog.fr/article-scierie-de-haut-fer-dans-le-nord-de-la-haute-saone-37304792.html

A historical article on the haut-fer with a few pics : http://membres.multimania.fr/hautfer/histoire-HF.html

A youtube page showing the work of the sawmill and steam mechanism : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFCfbHT40eI

Links to pictures :

http://www.fdmf.fr/images/articles/481_art_ov_1208883271.jpg
http://www.fdmf.fr/images/articles/1006_art_ov_1253993469.jpg
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Haut-fer_Malfosse.jpg
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Zell_alte_Saegemuehle_25052007_01.jpg (in Austria)

The building and waterwheel : http://www.fdmf.fr/images/articles/1007_art_ov_1253993959.JPG

[jacq01]

Paul,

here some links to sawmill area's and means of transport.
http://www.muehlenverein-rodachtal.de/18529.html?*session*id*key*=*session*id*val*
http://www.wwa-kc.bayern.de/projekte_und_programme/doc/floesserei_frankenwald.pdf

most logging was in the forrest of the old Austria/Hungarian empire in present countries like southern Poland, Tchechie, Slovakia, Hungaria,
Roumenia and Austria, Jugoslavia, etc.  In the Harz a narrowgauge line still operates, but if they transported a lot of timber I don't know. 

below a link to a line stil operating, which I hope to visit summer next year.

http://www.wassertalbahn.ch/frame.html

http://www.eichenberger-waldbahn.de/uebersicht.htm

Here a link to a H0 ( and other scales ) for feldbahn cars and loco's.
http://www.carocar.com/html/fb-fahrzeuge_teil_1.html

there is/was a beautiful white metal/brass H0 model of a 5 gang "gaettersaege" I used it in my H0 sawmill. 

goolge for "gattersaege" this gives lot of samples with further links.  similar for "Saegemuehle" or "Scierie"

Jacq

[glaskasten]

Thanks all:  It will take me some time to digest this information.   Keep the information coming!

I read that at Spiegelau the the original (oval) trucks were fragile and did not last many years.  Spiegelau later converted to the rectangular trucks as shown for the Royal Serbian Railway. 

Jacq:  The only white metal model of a Gatter Saw I can find is the Mo-Miniature Sägegatter which appears a bit more modern than what I see in Grainy pictures from 1910-1920.  The Saw blades are poor representatives in white metal.  I have contacted the company - but it appears they desire a minimum order of 30.



Marc:  The Elephant photo indicates that these hoists were "production" items and as such must be in a catalog.  However,  from the angle of the photor,  these could be small cranes.   Do you know what date the Indian photo was taken?

[jacq01]

   Paul,

   the Mo[Miniature saw is a model of saw from the early 20th century and belt driven.
   If you have troubles getting some stuff from him or some other firms, let me know. Maybe  I can help.

   I have built it and it is a wel done kit. I replaced the blades with paper ones and later with nickle silver strips.
   
    Jacq

[marc_reusser]

Paul,

The photo of the Cochin operation is c.1905. It is almost positive that the crane is from O&K as the RR purchased everything for it's operation (including all the incline equipment, etc.) in one shot from them. The crane is one of those small loading cranes often seen on European RR loading docks or quays (unfortunately I do not have a O&K "General Catalog" to check it against) It is likely installed on some form of cribbed or concrete base...unlike US operations that were often more "temporary" in construction, this was very solidly built and engineered. Just for your interest, this line was built and operated by the British, but used all German equipemnt....but then this was pre "Great War".

I actually noted the Serbian cars, because I wanted you to ignore them....they are likely broad, meter, or std. gauge....and are not the square frame cars you are making reference to (and likely a special order item). I have a copy of the O&K "Spezial-Katalog No. 863" from 1916 for "Land und Forstwirtschaft Bahnen", from their distributor in Vysocan (near Prague)....this catalog has several styles of the square cars you are referencing (fwiw. the Indian operation also used the square frame cars)....I will scan the pages and post them.

Insofar as saw blades go, you might be able to use and cut into the correct length pieces, the PE bandsaw blade that comes in the HO scale Keystone Models bandsaw kit.

Marc


PS...Till I can get to scanning those images, here are two catalog pages from the Georges-Marien-Verien Co. ...I am not sure if these were for light locomotive or animal powered use.