Wall

[Hector Bell]

I think this is all getting beyond Russ's original remit, I think it can be done in card and paint better, but I would still use wood.  My 20thou veneer scales at less than an inch thick, which looks good.  Even where it supposed to represent a thinner board for a fence panel it still looks convincing and very sharp edged with no burr.  On card, of the right sort, a very sharp scalpel or preferably razor blade at the right angle doesn't leave a burred edge.
Russ's experimentation has been helpful and it is necessary to try stuff, even if we're not happy with it.  My place is littered with "Hmm, p'haps nots".
Onwards and upwards.

Martin

[DaKra]

Its a very interesting result.  I think the graphic works well, even if the "paint" has no dimensional thickness.   Marc's criticism is harsh, but the graphic does set a very high standard of realism that the rest of the model should meet, in order not to violate your rule of consistency.   

I see no reason why that graphic wouldn't work in a laser, to etch paint off a pre-weathered wooden board.  Then you would have the best of all worlds, economics aside!   

Regarding butt joints, they tend to end up more pronounced on models than they are in 1/1 scale.  So I don't think the weathering helped. 

Dave

[Philip Smith]

"Shmooie"

http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=600.0

Gentlemen: ever heard of pet peeve?

philip

[BKLN]

The biggest problem with "photoshop walls" is the depth perception. While a lot of paper structures look great in photos most of them are lacking these small nuances of depth. I am a big fan of scalescenes.com and I have used a lot of their files, but they have their limitations. Russ's approach of board by board construction is the right (and only way). For me, the bigger question is if the file preparation in Photoshop, printing and cutting is worth the effort. I consider myself somewhat competent with Photoshop due to my job in Graphic Design, but I still feel more efficient with traditional ways of modeling.

I think the wall looks great, - I mean "satisfactory". Seriously, it is a satisfying result. I can't wait to see this technique applied to a full structure.

[james_coldicott]

Russ,

I think you've made great progress with this project in a short time span- personally I really like the finish you are achieving. All of the feedback is making for rapid progress which is the real value of this forum. I've attached a photo taken earlier this year of a barn in Dutchess County, NY. Not sure how it will feed into the debate but hopefully it will be of some use.

I have to say that the UK does not see such extremes of weather so to have such warping of the boards is rare over here but something that one sees all the time on travels in the USA- something that I always thought was 'overdone' and cliched when I saw it modelled, until I travelled a little more widely in the States.

There are so many factors that go into weathering of such a simple thing as a wall of timber that perhaps you need to judge your own success according to what you set out to achieve and what was in your minds eye when you began- and there is not a little truth in the aphorism "there is a prototype for everything". Looking forward to seeing your finished structure.

James

[Hector Bell]

Any board not perfectly cut on the quarter will cup horribly.  Take it from a man who rebuilt an oak boat full size and watched the rear deck become a big dipper!

It happens here although we don't get the extremes of weather.
As for the depth of paint issue, I would say that unless the paint is visibly curling up, there would be no perception of depth at 1/48th scale.

I'm looking at a weathered wall plate 20 feet away and the missing paint is not at all perceptible compared with the base iron plate.  That's just 5 inches in 1/48th scale and I never look at a model that close.  My specs won't allow it!
Varifocals.  Like mixed fruit jam, they're neither fish nor fowl.

Martin

[marc_reusser]

Like I had nothing better to do.....

But in the intrest of maybe furthering the discussion....

I had an old sample section of one of Russ walls in my drawer, and decided to drag it out and play with the coloring, chipping and stainining a bit. Aadded a foundation, some details and stains....about an hours worth of work....nothing great or involving a lot of effort or finesse.

The overall shot...viewed from about 12" away:




...and the close-up shot.




There is still a lot that could be done, and definitely more finesse taken with the chip coloring and pattern (but then this should be coming from/manipulated on the printer and the original board print-out.)......but I thought it might finally stop Russ' whining about not being ready for prime-time, and get his butt in gear to move forward.

There are definitely some things I found that need to be improved/changed on the print-out and that need to be touched-up/addressed during assembly to help the appearance.


Marc

[Ray Dunakin]

Dang, that looks good, Marc!

[finescalerr]

Well, I see you are finally putting my gifts and your time to good use. Didn't I give you that discard in February? A long overdue demonstration.

I can't even remember what the original artwork looked like on that wall so please tell us more specifically what you did and how you did it. Looks as though the lighter peels were mine and the darker ones are yours. Adding foundation stones, signs, bedsprings, barrels, corrugated window covering, and stripwood is cheating. You just did that to doll up your muddled attempt to improve things. Still, given the starting point, it's not bad overall.

The lower edges of the clapboards look slightly rounded.

Just kidding.

Or am I?

Russ

[marc_reusser]

Well, I figured it was about time I held up my end of those samples

You gave me three pieces....two like this with the green trim, and one narrower one with white trim. You had gone through and done the same or sim type of board fading and discoloration with powders/pigments as you did here earlier on in the thread. Given this, I thought it would be a balanced starting point for this exercise.

First I used a soft eraser and tried to remove as much of your pigment as posible. Then I used a 1/4-3/8" wide flat brush, and coated the whole sample...in the direction of the planks, with Grumbacher matte varnish. Dried with a blow-dryer.

I then placed small dabs of three different Vallejo colors in a tray and created random mixes with which I added more and finer chips only about 50% of the light chips are printed origanlals (there were only about 4 boards on this sample that had some areas of printed chipping)...the rest are paint...and the dark ones are definitely paint...mainly due to mixing inattention. On ething that I oticed that IMO seemed to help the overall appearance was where the chips (printed and painted) hit the lower edge of the clapboard, I painted the underside of the edge as well, so ast to show the chip wrapping the dge onto the underside of the siding...as it would in real life (I used a steel shim, just held in place, to protect the next next board from accidentally getting any paint on the face.)  at this point I could have gone back in withs some off white paint and added "positive chips" to some of the printed and painted areas to refine them.....but this was intended to be just a quick try ...and I didn't want to spend the time.)

I also cut a few board splices in (after the varnish), and then with an 18/0 brush carefully wicked some Silverwood into the joint.

Next I masked off the trim boards, went in and dry brushed a lighter/faded shade of green Vallejo acrylic over the trim boards....the original boards were farr to GREEN and saturated. Not only in regards to wanting them to appear aged, but also for scale effect.

Then a wall length board template was made using Tamiya masking tape.....this rectangular mask, pretty much exactly fit one board height the entire width of the wall. using two or three different colors tan and grey MIG pigments, and a partially cut down dound brush, I dabbed and streaked (along the board direction) a varying mix of the pigments. The amask was lifted as a whole...and placed on the next board up...then pigments repeated. By having a random mix and quantity of pigment I was hoping that the boards would have varying shading and hues. [unfortunately the moving of the mask caused some ogf the painted on chip areas to lift off.]  Once all the boards were done (I only went halfway up the windoew on each side) I bleww off some of the extra/loose pigment, then again using the flat brush, drew matte varnish across the boards in the grain direction. Dried with a blow dryer.

I tried a few dots of Humbrol rust colored paint, applied with a .010 rod end...but felt I didn't have the hang of it or right solution yet, so I picked most of them back bup ond fade the few remaining, with a small brush and turpentine.

Then the details were added to muddle things up, and lastly a round tip brush was used with a mixture of Bragdons grey/tan/brown to create the grime streaks from the sill, and the same brush (after cleaning) was used with a mix of Bragdons rust pigments to create the rust streaking.

I dolled the whole thing up, only to show the importance and relevance of the "context" that I have been harping on about, but seems to have fallen on deaf ears. ...and also to try and drive home my point I made the day we discussed your waterfront buildg, that as long as you only look at the building you are going to drive yourself nutty, and the the setting, and details accompanying the building will create the complete scene and apperance, and take away from the almost irrational/intense/obsessive focus you were putting on the plain structure. 

Now, I know painting additional chips on, or drybrushing the trim, is not what you are after in this excercise....but what it does show, is that maybe the artwork needs to be changed to have a wider selction of chipped boards with finer and more random chips....and the color for the trim needs de-saturation.  .....however...even if this was done....I think there would still be a need to paint in the chips on the board undersides, and possibly add a few in here and there to either better combine/and blend areas that didn't/weren't laid out exectly right when glued up.

One other thing to note...I found that when adding the painted chips...that when got the different shades right, it helped to subtly paint these into some areas of the printed chips/peels. What I got out of this was that The underlying grey artwork could benefit from some variation in tone, color, and value of the peeled areas.

When printing the board sheet, it is also wise to print some boards where the chips go all the way up the short distance...that way these boards could be used to simulate peels at butt joints and at wall or trim ends.

Like I said...my experiment has very obvious issues, but I think it points out (at least to me) areas that would benefit the end result, were they adressed in the artwork.



Marc

PS...if the lower edges appear rounded, that's because the purveyor of such provided them as such.

[Hector Bell]

I used to think that you Americans went a little too far with the weathering stuff, then I saw a feature on English TV about a town called Gary (forgotten the state,sorry) and it was a wrecked ghost town in which 100,000 people STILL live!
Good grief, you weathering fans would have a field day picturing and representing that poor place.
What a mess!
I can pretty safely say, that whilst we have some dodgy places over here, we have nothing as bad as Gary.

Martin

[eTraxx]

Gary, Indiana, Ghost Town

[lab-dad]

Marc,
First off excellent tutorial! The techniques could be used on any media.
Am I to think the "boards"were sliced into individual ones? or is the relief I see simply paint?

Russ,
No more whining! get something built!

I really enjoyed seeing Marc's bench! Would love to see an overall shot!
Makes me feel better about mine!
-Marty

[finescalerr]

Thanks for the thorough, in-depth explanation, Marc. If you can improve my discards to that extent then I should be able to do more with my "keepers". And I don't think an hour with a paintbrush is too much time to spend improving a wall section. Please save that scrap and let's photograph it for an article. It shows how to improve the weathered finish of virtually any "wood" wall, whether wood, plastic, cardstock, or brass. I'll save your SBS for the text and publish it in next year's Modelers' Annual.

Suggestion: Any of you guys with salvageable structure walls should spend an hour messing with them and post the results here. Let's see whether this thread can morph into a clinic on finishing and weathering. And if you want to try it with cardstock, even better. (The next Modelers' Annual challenge is to build a small structure from cardstock.)

Yeah, Marty, at this point I need to start building, especially as I now see there is more potential in my cardstock muddling than I thought. I'll cobble together a new wall (maybe that same section) and post it ASAP.

Russ

[Mobilgas]

  Russ,   Salvageable structure wall's?? .......printed pepsi sign on plain old copy paper....cut out sign....flipped over and sanded back with fine sandpaper... ruined a couple sign's till i got it thin enough but not to thin were i couldn't work with it.  Soaked in bowl of water and white elmer's glue...and applied to wall....worked it in with Wet paint brush and let dry.   I messed it up latter buy adding wood grain over the paper?....should of left it alone.....The Fix?? i don't know what to do with it now.       suggestions welcome            Craig H