1:16th 1944 Belgian mechanic/work shop

[pwranta193]

Hi all - my first post over here, after stumbling across your site last Summer (actually, I strayed in through that door from the alley, after following one of Mr. Ruesser's posts over on MiG).  I'd like to post my vignette - originally intended to be a backdrop for Trumpeter's 1:16th scale half track with quad .50 cals.

At some point in the process I became more focused on the building and the stuff - and well, here I am.  While having built models as a kid and then the one off here and there when I was in the service, I started back up with a vengence in about 2003.  My focus before this was all 1:35th armor - but as I started to try my hand at scratching, and seeing all of the non-traditional stuff guys do now, I've strayed from the path.  This site continually blows my mind - and one of the things I am always impressed by is the discussion and comments are always pushing folks to the next level.  Soooo, I'd like to start with a couple of shots of where this started about 18 months ago - and then add in some sequential sets in the days to come.  i hope to wrap up in the next couple of days, but will probably dink around with it for weeks

More story line later - but here goes:
Started out thinking barn (something along the lines of Kelley's Heroes), but researching farm equipment wasn't as appealing (at this point), so this my first major scratch attempt.  Seeing Chuck's workshop was the early view into this abyss...


and a new shot as I move my stuff to fotki


Please note that in retrospect, I think I managed to not follow any of the design basics for making a scene - i.e., the tenants that I've been exposed to since starting - and have possibly disproved the blind hog theory.  I was pretty much wedded to the layout after casting and carving the 5 pound slab of hydro-cal that makes up the back wall.  It seemed like a good idea the time.  Amateur hour  .  My biggest fear at this point is trying to get it to at least one show without the whole back wall snapping off.



An in progress shot of the interior - about two months ago...



And some now shots - as you can tell, weathering is still a in progress event for me .


The tools are a combo of Dave K's designs and some of my own (my thanks, sir, for being patient and so easy to work with).  the fire extinguisher started out kinda tongue in cheek - it was a .30 cal carbine casing, that ended up with a brass data plate made by embossing wine bottle foil over an old coin.

The hardest part is shooting the entire scene - as it is a couple of feet tall - and a bit taller than my 1:35th intended set up.  I may drag it all outside tomorrow if weather permits and do some daylight shots.  

Thanks for looking - as I said I'll post up new and now stuff tomorrow - and would appreciate a good hard eye on things to do to improve - whether this time or for the next one (depending how far gone somethings may be...)
Paul

[marc_reusser]

Hey Paul!

Great to see you post this here. I really enjoyed watching this come together over on MIG....never mind that I thought you were nuts.

I think my comments/concerns would lie in some of the small issues:

Comparing how beutifully the figure is painted, and that you kept it in a nice flat/matte finish (which is where so many figure painters fail)...the shiny finish on the coblestones and the bricks in the loft really stand out and bother me. Bricks in this case would likely be completely matte, and the cobbles may have some sheen at a high pint of wear or so, but would likely be much duller...not necess dead flat..but almost lusterless (I am though assuming since this is still inprogress that there is still some dust and dirt to follow that will matt them).

From an architectural standpoint the timbers and joinery are off...I think at this scale that is something that you may want to represent, as it is quite visible. I can help some with this if you want, but our resident 1:1 scale master estate builder here, Nick Ogden (shropshire lad) is the true expert.

The other architectural part that stands out is the window....IMO the sticking is too heavy, and the sill construction is off.

I do like your "rough cast" style plaster texture above the bricks in the loft.


Look forward to seeing more of this as well as some of your other builds.

Marc

[finescalerr]

I think your modeling is very good and, with input from the guys on this group, you have the potential to become really outstanding. Marc and others always make excellent modeling suggestions and, as you know, Marc's "nitpicks" are worth your attention. I have learned a lot from them (despite the devastating and scarring humiliation that has left me a mere shell of a man).

I'm the Resident Photographer and Forum Honcho so let me make a couple of suggestions about presentation:

First, don't use flash. Instead, put your camera on a tripod, set up some indoor lighting with table lamps, shop lights, even fluorescents ... or go outside with the diorama ... and fire away. The flash really threw off the overall effect of your exterior stonework, for example.

Second, if you have the original photos of the Fotki links, you're better off uploading them here. From time to time Fotki links change and those coming to the thread late are left scratching their heads when they get a "404 error" message. Some of those Fotki images are pretty good and it would be a shame were we to lose them.

You should fit rather well with us loonies.

Russ

[Junior]

I can understand part of the above criticism due to the fact that it´s such a large scale diorama. However I believe this will make a great model and the drill press is a masterpiece!

Anders

[pwranta193]

And we're off  to the races

This is exactly the kind of input I'm looking for - and I'll incorporate wherever possible - and have pre-ordered six sessions of feel good time with a local Shaman/Herbalist/Macrame Diva and all around Psychic regenerator at a Hot Bath Kelp Therapy Spa to nurture my fragile ego (hey - I'm in Oregon - it's what the 19% of us without Medical MJ cards do   ).  I'm pretty far down the path on some of these bits (though I'm intrigued by doing a tear down of the post and beam... hmmm), and may punch through to the end and get ready for my next one.  (Speaking of which - you guys may have already seen this: http://www.mattkierstead.com/royal-mills/machine-shop-interiors
I'm hoping to build one of the fire pumps next).

The good news is that the floor and back wall are finally matte - even my wife was put off by it for months - but I've finally managed to knock down the Future seal coat with a heavy round of Gunze H20 (that's "aich twenty" - not "aich two-oh" as i understand it - my favorite matte coat) mixed with a dab of Khaki Brown.

Lighting - will heed and obey... I actually have a three light set up in a closet - and it is almost a third too short to get the dio into for shooting.  Direct posting?  Who knew - I'll sort that out today.  I've also had some real battles with white balance - likely user error, but I've learned that the coolpix 5400 may not be the optimal box for macro needs.  Off to watch some FA cup, and then back for those outdoor pictures.  I really wish I'd found this place at the beginning third of the project  .

My thanks!  Paul

[shropshire lad]

Hi Paul ,

   It is good to have you join our little gathering , and it is especially pleasing to see another non-railroading type contributing to the depth of knowledge that has built up here over the years . Hopefully you'll stick around , even after all the " constructive criticism" you get given !

  As Marc mentioned my name in his post I thought I had better pipe up . Firstly , I am no expert in anything ,especially building , but I do think I have a bit of an eye as to what looks right , or not, be it in real life or a model .

  One thing I have come to realise over the last few years is that each area or discipline of modelling has their strengths and weaknesses , for instance , most railway modellers are rubbish at figure painting and getting realistic finishes on their vehicles whereas they are significantly ahead when it comes to buildings and scenery .Military modellers are light years ahead of railway modellers when it comes to weathering and aging vehicles , be they military or civilian , but tend to fall down when it comes to making their buildings look right .

It's funny , they may spend hours agonising over whether a certain tank produced on a certain day in 1943 had square headed or hexagonal bolts on the underside of the trackguards , which will never be seen , but then bang together some rough and ready looking building that is full of mistakes . We all do the same sort of thing , except Marc and Chuck of course, in our own area of modelling .

  Before I go any further , I just want to say that your GI and halftrack look superb , especially as they are in such a large scale where the quality of the finish has to be even better than that of smaller scales. I know that I couldn't do a decent job on something that large . Good job . However, I have to agree with Marc on his comments on the building . And add a few more .

To me , the scene is let down by two main things , the floor and the stone wall . Whilst I am not particularly familiar with large areas of European architecture so it is quite possible that there are prototypes for the cobbles you made but they don't look like any I have seen . To me they are more than twice as long as the ought to be and too smooth . I don't find the colours convincing either .In this scale you should have made each cobble individually out of plaster and laid them one at a time . Still , all is not lost . I have the answer . Concrete over the whole lot .A bit drastic I know , but if it were mine I would have to do something like that . Somewhere on this site is a discussion and experiment by Marc, on different concrete finishes . If you can find it you might think that my suggestion could be worth considering .

  Now the stone wall . I know you spent along time creating it , but to me there are a number of things on it I wouldn't do . Whether there is prototypical evidence or not . The first thing is that I don't like is the oblong blocks that are laid vertically .I know there are plenty of buildings built like this , and there are a few railway kit manufacturers that make their stone walls look like this , but to me it just looks wrong . In the real world it would compromise the strength of the wall . Am I right in thinking that we are looking at the inside of the wall ? If so ,the quality of the stone work would not be as good , especially as it was plastered and not meant to be seem . The builders would not have wasted time and money on producing nicely squared stone blocks only to cover them up . They would have used rubble stone or brickwork and had cut stone or brick corners .

  Some sort of lintel over the window wouldn't go amiss !

Finally , the colour of the stonework looks a bit like an explosion in a paint factory . Again , whilst there are prototypes of stone walls having different coloured stones it is more usual for the stones to be roughly the same colour . If you think about it , it is more than likely that the stone would have all come from the same quarry so would be of a similar colour , BUT there is every chance that there would be different colours within each stone . Therefore , what you could have done is make all the stones the same colour and made the overall wall more interesting by subtly adding extra colours to each stone ,for instance , as a pin wash .Have a look at www.nebrownstone.com , I think you might find some useful information there . And they produce the best looking commercial stonewalls available .

Hopefully you are still with us and haven't gone off and topped yourself , as these comments are not meant to be hurtful but you did raise your head over the parapet and ask.

As for Russ's present state. That is purely down to oggling pretty thong bikini clad beauties on the beach .Nothing to do with Marc saying that his modelling sucks !

  Nick

[marc_reusser]

Boy...that is the most I have seen Nick write in a long time....must be a slow day out on the estate.

Paul; I have a book on the construction of French (sorry as close as I could get to Belgium...who can't agree on what nationality they want to be anyway ) farm and rural buildings. I will see if I can find anything of use for you there and scan and post it. (Note; I am not suggesting, or expecting, you to change anything...this is all just FYI.....it's how stuff 'rolls' around here  . We just keep putting out info till you finally feel beaten down, and badgered into it. It's all good   ....besides figure this as pay-back for living in the stste that foisted Starbucks on everyone.  )

I hate to admit it, but I do think Nicks approach to the laying individual cobbles for the floor is a good one...you need to be careful about Nick though...he's a bit nutters when it comes to "individual" pieces...this is the guy that used several thousand 1/35 scale bricks to build a shed on his diorama . 

Something else came to mind about the floor being cobblestone.....depending on what type of structure this originally was, there is a good chance that the floors would be brick, or brick pavers, rather than cobbles. Figuring that the majority of these structures had basements/cellars below. ...also if this were one a barn or stable building, the floor could have been wood.....they used to do this so that the efluence from the animals could be washed down between the boards into a pit below....somewhere I have pics I took in Switzerland of an old barn and farmhouse.......anyhoo, just some more thoughts  .


Marc

[pwranta193]

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
  No... really... I'll be fine - sniff.

[shropshire lad]

Marc,

   I don't know about you , but I think he took it pretty well .

   It took me about an hour and a half to type that last night . I was knackered at the end .

    Nick

[Frederic Testard]

The comments are as great and informative as Paul's project is nice, with this beautiful drill press to start with.
Marc, simple curiosity, what's this book you have about French buildings? There used to be a great collection called Architecture de France and I have one of them but they have become either unfindable or terribly expensive. I would have bought more then if I had known how my interest were to evolve.

[Chuck Doan]

I think you're going to need a bigger bottle!

Welcome Paul! I have considered a large scale shop in the past, so it will be fun to see this come together. Sounds like some good advice so far. I wouldn't know where to start an a French building. Thanks for that link, some nice pics there.

Hope you keep hanging out!

Chuck

[jacq01]

 Welcome Paul.

As for Russ's present state. That is purely down to oggling pretty thong bikini clad beauties on the beach .Nothing to do with Marc saying that his modelling sucks !

  He is not coming further than Ken's new topic about the 1/2 " scale figure. 

I do agree with Marc and Nick. In such a large scale is is possible to paint stones and bricks in such a way that brush marks are not visible.
This is becoming a very nice vignette.

Jacq

[pwranta193]

I knew I should have used Legos...

First - my thanks to you all for the thoughtful, and sharp eyed comments.  This was truly a case of in with both feet, almost everything tried here was a first time go - and I'm really looking forward to the next effort, as I've learned so much after the fact  

As for the comments - great stuff on all counts - the down side is that it doesn't look like I'm going to be able to take off the loft and support beams without tearing everything up pretty badly  

I'll add in the newer pictures below - and to introduce them some explanations to the materials used - and how I got here from there.

Arched wall - made from pink insulting foam, and hand carved - the arch was built up with hydro-cal and hand worked in an effort to look like stone. I then gesso'd and spackled over my first efforts at carving the pink .

Interior flooring... consisted of some big old sheets of pre-made Plastruct(?) to the best of my memory intended for really large scale railroading (intended for walls and abutments from what I have since seen).  It won't happen again .  I started out casting concrete panels (as with the entry way) in hydro-cal, and thought they would look too modern.  I really like the idea of cobbles or stone as replacements - and will noodle on that for a bit.  Without getting the wall painting fixed (problematic with the woodwork hermetically sealed in just last week) - that may be more good effort after bad?  I'm now sorting out the decision point to finish this one up and take the end of semester grade... or really tear back into it.

Nick, after seeing the rock wall site as linked above - I've called in sick this week to redo the 1:1 scale version next to my driveway . Truly awesome product, and some dark little part of my brain wants to challenge their assertion that "you can't do it better yourself".  It is a blisteringly good example of what you were saying on starting out with a solid color.. it looks like the real thing.  I'm afraid to show you what I came up with for the street pavers on the exterior.  The comments on the upright blocks are spot on - and I agree with you that while I too have seen this in "real life", looking at them here doesn't sell.  To your other point, it was indeed supposed to be an exterior wall that has now become an interior space with a later add on.  Lintel... damn you, man!!  

Oh - so for over all scenic context... this is meant to represent a point in time in the first couple of days the Ardennes Offensive (Battle of the Bulge).  The area around St.Vith, specifically - which, per Marc's call out, was actually an area of about 50,000 German speaking Belgians.  Most of the inhabitants were evacuated as the Germans retreated, and most of the few remaining were moved West when the Americans set up shop in October. St Vith, as I understand it was likely locked up and I would assume that most things like good tools, spare parts and any thing resembling useful by the Wehrmacht extricated.  I've tried to show this as a largely intact location - with the aging, home upgraded drill press left behind.  I was going to have some spare tires up in the loft - but there really wasn't such a thing by this stage of the war (I may take a couple of old 1:16th rubber ones and run all of the tread off of them).  As I tried to fit the cardboard mock ups of the large doors -  they would have obscured either the interior, or the halftrack - so I'm working on the premise that they were carted of to make bunker/barrier materiel (work with me here).  The halftrack is pulled in for a bit of shelter and warmth during a lull... the pot belly stove may be my one bit of trickery, as it contains a small flickering light and looks the biz in complete darkness.

While the inhabitants left the town intact expecting to return after the war, the town was obliterated by the USAAF once the Americans withdrew and the Germans moved in.  My building is loosely based on some shots of nearby villages and some of the few pre-war shots I could find online.

Marc - you wouldn't happen to have a book on Belgian Electrical fittings of the 1930s would you?  

[pwranta193]

A couple more shots...
Here we have the terrible floor seam needing repair (i may go with planking after all...)and the pot belly stove.  made from a kid's novlety mug and an old Barbie crown.

Weather didn't cooperate so these are shot with the only two mobile lights out of my light box - sorry!

[Frederic Testard]

An old Barbie crown? Now, this is great ingenuity.