shingles & shakes (retitled from "would this")

[lab-dad]

i love the idea on using the plane shavings.
what about curl?
definitely going to try them on my next roof.
-marty

[Mr Potato Head]

Phillip
I love that diagram, if you have ever seen a real shake roof, you would see above the eave line where the tar paper stops, you can see through the roof , it looks like Swiss cheese. My parents replaced there shake roof and when I climbed in there attic I was surprised to see all the light coming through. Water has no prejudice; it will find the lowest spot, automatically! So shake roofs by nature are designed to drain, to the lowest point. When you see all those holes you say to yourself how could it not leak? But it doesn't!
So I say again the shake roof in question looks like hell but it won't leak!
MPH

[chester]

It's not uncommon to see light through a shake roof. They don't leak because the shingles swell when they get wet. Seeing light through the first course at the eaves is when the person roofing didn't use a starter course under his first row of shingles. Marc's observations for the ridge planks is correct. However my preference is to comb the ridge with shakes and not use boards.
   With regard to modeling shake roofs. Anyone with a penchant for good cigars will notice some terrific thin wood that comes inside the cigar box just perfect for shakes in smaller scales. Smoke 'em if you got 'em boys.

[marc_reusser]

I think the more typical approach at the eaves was to gang the nailing boards to create a solid sheathing area there, rather than do shingles on spaced nailer boards....but I guess that depends on the era and type of structure you are doing.

Marc

[DaKra]

I've saved a bunch of Shorpy photos to my rooftops file, like this gem.   
 
http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/4a09190a.jpg

[marc_reusser]

ummm...no "gem" to be seen.

M

[eTraxx]

Take a look at the roofing of the building in the very lower right of this photo
http://www.shorpy.com/node/10266

Dang. Shorpy's addictive ..

gotta wonder if the roof leaked after this crowd
http://www.shorpy.com/node/10265

[NORCALLOGGER]

Hhmmmm,
Reading back through this thread this evening I am slightly confused, nothing new there, It almost sounds like some of you are talking like a shake and a shingle are one and the same.  Except for being made of wood they are completely different and installed in a different manner.

Well actually it wasn't always that way.  Back in the day, lets say before 1800 all shingles were made from shake blanks and were hand tapered and smoothed with a draw knife to lay flat and installed over various kinds of under framing.

Starting in the early 1800's Shingle sawing machines started to be developed and improved.

The upshot of this is that a SHINGLE is sawn on all surfaces and all shingles are of a uniform size.  They come in different lengths to be used for different pitched roofs, and different exposures to the weather. 

A shake is a rough fully split piece of uniform length but of random width and thickness, although a more modern method of producing shakes uses a biased sawn blank so you end up with a shake that is rough on the weather side but smooth on the the down side.

Todays codes require that, wood SHINGLES should be installed with the thicker lower ends raised on wood strips (both over a solid layer of roofing felt on the roof sheathing) so that the shingles can dry out.
Wood SHAKES are rough split with very uneven surfaces, and can be installed with overlapping layers of felt between the layers of shakes (wood strips are not as necessary, but can be used, also).

This doesn't even get us into "board" roofs.  Of course all of this is academic for me since the new installation of wood shakes or shingles has been illegal in this area since the 1970's because of wild fire hazard.

But I have worked on quite a few of both types throught the years.
Rick

[Philip Smith]

Hhmmmm,
But I have worked on quite a few of both types throught the years.
Rick

Thanks for the lesson Rick. Was poking around Youtube late last night looking at the different types, both hand and machine made.

Dallas, I'd like to see the method of shaving these. I'm not grasping how it's done or the end resulting profile. A mini SBS would be nice.

Chester, please elaborate on this combing method. I remember Norm Abrams ala (this old house) capping a gazebo. Was it combed?

I have seen many roofs with light coming through, some with leaks others not. The ones with sky showing leaked.

Philip       

[chester]

Philip, this recently finished little garden shed has a combed ridge cap. Each shingle on the ridge is alternately over lapped with the shingle on the other side of the roof. This method is often done on sidewall shingles to outside corners of a house also so as to eliminate the need for corner boards. It should be noted that any respectable builder here in New England will use red cedar for a roof and white cedar is reserved only for side wall shingling.

[Philip Smith]

Really Nice Chester!

thanks!

[Malachi Constant]

Dallas, I'd like to see the method of shaving these. I'm not grasping how it's done or the end resulting profile. A mini SBS would be nice.

Philip      

Sure it would.  After you try it, make sure to post your photos and notes!  

In response to the original notes about folks being dissatisfied with laser-cut shingles, I mentioned that using a plane to shave thin wood pieces MIGHT be a useful idea ... AND that I hadn't actually tried it.  Now, if I do get around to trying it before you do, then I'll post the photos and notes ...

Meanwhile, still suspect that there are a variety of solutions, including material scavenged from cigar boxes, ultra thin veneers, wood shavings and so forth.  So, get going roofers and let us know what works.    

PS -- This might be a convenient way to get the thin cedar sheet:
http://www.sierrascalemodels.com/cedar.htm

[finescalerr]

Chester, is it common for a decent roof guy to lay such perfectly aligned courses (virtually no stagger in the parallel lines)? I saw similar work in a black-and-white photo in TimberTimes and thought that it might have been the work of a particularly meticulous roofer.

Also, when the shingles age, will the contrast between the light and dark wood remain at about the same level or will everything kind of blend into a monotone?

Russ

[marc_reusser]

Russ,

When I spec shake or shingle work I generally have to specify the look I want, straight/aligned or staggered...and if I choose staggered, then i have to specify to the roofer the amount(s)/range....after which he makes up a 10x10 sample area for review and approval.

Marc

[Philip Smith]

Dallas, I'd like to see the method of shaving these. I'm not grasping how it's done or the end resulting profile. A mini SBS would be nice.

Philip      

Sure it would.  After you try it, make sure to post your photos and notes!  

I intend to... and hope others participate!!   after reviewing Chesters advise about roofs & walls.

Marc: Sounds like your speaking from experience! tear it off!

blend into a monotone??? Good question Russ.

Philip

Note: I retitled this thread for easier future search reference