Newbie 1:87 outhouse

[rjdimaggio]

Just got my first taste of laserboard so I figured I would try it out on my outhouse design.  You guys are the best critics I have found out here so here tis for your pah-roo-zul.
Thanks for the feedback,
rj

[mabloodhound]

Some graining and weathering should make this a true 'throne room'.

[chester]

Fella needs to drop his drawers. Just a little privy etiquette there.

[lab-dad]

well it sure looks like a laser kit.
-Marty

[finescalerr]

So far Marty has come closest to an honest appraisal. Come on guys, RJ needs some seriously helpful feedback. Let him have it with both barrels. Otherwise how can he learn how to do it better? (I already sent him a private message and pulled no punches.) Let's see whether he has the talent to put your suggestions to use. -- Russ

[jacq01]

    Wonder what size of nails have been used ?
    What is the purpose of the nails, there is no logic in their position.
    No hinges, no doorhandle, how do you close the door ?
    The roof looks like a tissue what material you try to imitate?

    Jacq

[Junior]

Rj ....I´m not really sure if this is a kit or what?   If your intention is to build an outhouse that looks as good as possible I would start from scratch and build one up board by board and skip most of those nail holes as they wouldn´t be very visible in 1/87 scale. Your scrap box might have some suitable boards and at the same time you get a nice variety on color, weathering etc.

Anders

[marc_reusser]

RJ,

I can see that a good bit of thought and effort was put into the design/cutting and building of the kit. The image is a bit small and tough to see everything so my critique is going to be a bit limited.

Unfortunately the fact that we are only seeng the raw laser cut build, and not the subsequent colored/finished build, I think is doing you a dis-service, as the brown edges over emphasize the the nail holes and gaps, and draw ones attention.

A nice touch /concept in the design is the inclusion of the interior framing....I think it could use a stud or two more though..and not sure on the corner framing.

Were the boards laser cut as individual pieces, or did you cut board gaps/spaces into the design?

Yes, the rough is a bit rough...but that is technique..and not what you are asking about. (I am assuming you are looking to represent rusted sheet metal.)

I have a couple of issues with the model:

If you are going to the effort of doing the interior framing, it would be good to have some floor framing as well...as the prototypes would have...the boards on the ground looks wrong, and limits the structures use in a scene with even the slightest grade undulaton. If you are going for that "right to the ground" type of structure...then I would just use a dirt floor inside with no floor boards...or maybe just a loose plank on the ground to stand on.

I don't understand the trim around the door opening (though I am assuming it is to cover the edge of the wall section where there is a small piece/edge to hold the spaced wall boards together) ...this just looks wrong in every way...with as rustic as the structure is, I don't see anyone taking the time to trim out the opening.....but if you really want the trimmed look, at least make it a bit wider, and make it look like three seperate pieces (top and two sides).

The worst and biggest offender though is truly the nail holes...it looks more like the structure was sprayed with a Thompson MG. Aside from their apparent size in this scale, I understand your attempting to make it look roughly nailed together but the offsets/randomness/spacing is so extreme (think of scale inches)..that even a blind epileptic monkey could have done a better job (not referring to you...but to a builder in the real world that would place nails like this)...I doubt even the most inexperienced person would be this wild and random.

Lastly, I think you need to consider/decide which way you want to go with this.....more realistic/in-scale/believable looking....or more charicature-ish/impressionistic/Franklin-and-Fantasy like.  Right now, it seems neither fish nor fowl.


Marc

[Philip Smith]

well it sure looks like a laser kit.
-Marty

I think Marty's assessment is dead on.  I do like the 1/2 moon. I think laser cutting is suited for difficult areas, such as a 1/2 moon but not an entire structure. It looks toyish.


Philip

[rjdimaggio]

First, let me thank you all for the feedback.  It's what I needed.  I did want to mention to those who pointed out the details missing that this IS the work in progress section, and this was a glue-up of the raw materials.  Things that Marc pointed out about the edges being burnt etc, is dead on.  Once you run a small wire brush over them and the nail holes, they soften and when painted & weathered take on a more realistic appearance.  I did indeed cut the boards out instead of cutting individuals, I was thinking that an older structure, after just being cobbled together, may have gaps between the boards.  I will try just scribing the next one.  I'll add more internal framing, good point.  It's amazing that when you glance at it at real size and from a further distance it looks more realistic, but under the scrutiny of the long distance lens of the camera, all the stuff jumps out at you.  I'll have to work on my photography next I guess.  Yes, I produced it on my laser.  Yes I covered the edges with those trim boards in an attempt to cover the box style fingers of joining the sides together.  Was a forethought and not an afterthought.  I will try leaving them off to see what affect that will have, and maybe some sanding before paint etc, may make them disappear.  I just like finished corners, so it's a personal thing.   I tried to make all the boards to scale, and the one thing that I have not stumbled across is 3/4"  HO scale plywood.  That could have looked better I admit... but once again, I did post the picture in the WIP secton...I'll get it right on the followup post...
I can't quite determine which either Marc, fish or fowl..... how about turd?
rj

[fspg2]

RJ,
here is an instruction of a nice little "plumsklo" (earth closet ?) buildet by Marcel Ackle.  Maybe you'll get a few new ideas.

Frithjof

[BKLN]

RJ,
you asked for honest opinions:
I am assuming that you own a lasercutter and did this as a first test kit.

Your subject of an outhouse is really funny, but it seems weird to do this as lasercut project. What I am trying to say is, that you are using a very sophisticated tool for a very unsophisticated structure. I bet you that the time it took you to draw up the outhouse in your graphic program, you could have built three outhouses by hand, just by cutting small strips of laserboard.

The true qualities of a lasercutter (and most other sophisticated machines) pay of in areas where the hand fails. There are limitations to model building! We all love to test these limitations and we all look for shortcuts, but there are things that can't be built that small (regardless how small "small" is) The result will look oversized, regardless of your skill. Which brings me to the next point, which is proof for just that: The glasses of the little guy, sitting in there with his pants up: His glasses first seem to be an amazing detail, but then they turn out to be completely out of scale. Those glasses would be the size of teacups with a finger thick rim. The solution? Just don't do them!

So, how about trying a "modern outhouse"? It might not fit your era of modeling, but a modern porta-pottie would be a perfect test for your laser. Straight angles, two or three layers to include all the structural support molds and all that. To me, that would be a perfect laser project because it takes full advantage of the tool.


Don't let these comments discourage you. I am excited to see a follow up.

[rjdimaggio]

Christian (and all who helped me here so far)
Yes, I have a flatbed laser.  I built it from scratch, meaning, I bought a used Synrad 25 Watt unit off eBay and constructed the X/Y system from a pair of linear motors.  I used servo drives and a relatively recent version of a commercially available motion controller which accepts data from a front end program I authored in Visual Basic.  This program takes AutoCAD DXF file data, converts the geometry (points, lines and circles) and transmits them to the laser control.  I just outfitted the laser with a new focusing lens in an attempt to get my focused point smaller, so that is one reason I was trying the nail holes.  So, in essence, I am testing out all the phases of my setup.  I just thought that an outhouse was novel.  I appreciate your comments on aspect ratio and size relationships, how sometimes there is no substitute for the human hand and talent, but a man has to do, well, you get the point.  I am hoping to offer my laser up as a service to guys who don't have access to one, and the outhouse was going to be a kind of calling card in that respect.  So, it looks like I have to get a WHOLE lot better before I go that route.  Joining this group is a humbling experience.  I look back at a few of the other buildings I have constructed after lurking around here, and there is NO WAY I'll display them here, until I can get the quality up to where I won't get spanked!! 
The one big plus to having the laser is that I just cranked out 5 little row house kits, each one with the push of a button while I sat back and had another beer!  Now THAT'S the way to work....
Bottom line, thanks alot guys for all the feedback so far and I am sure there will be more.
rj

[marc_reusser]

I can't quite determine which either Marc, fish or fowl..... how about turd?

rj

I think you are being unfair to yourself. And that was definitely not what I was implying...As I said in the beginning, al lot has to do with the visual appearanve of an unpainted laser kit in this small of a scale...especially on such a small structure. The same issues that I noted on yours are the same type of issues I have with the vast majority of laser kits, especially in HO.

I think it's great and admirable the you are looking to offer this service to the public. It's definitely a service that is needed....especially since you can work with DWG/DXF files. I have quite often found myself wishing that I could just e-mail a drawing out to someone and then get laser cut parts (or a kit) back in short order. I really am interested in hearing more about your venture as you proceed.

Marc

[rjdimaggio]

Marc,
I have sent you a couple messages via "personal messages" option here on the board, and maybe I don't know how to use the feature.  Let me know if you received them, or if I have to smarten up and learn how it works first.
thanks
rj