Jacq's Logging Project Discussion

[Ray Dunakin]

Looking at some "references" it stuck me that p.e. Red Stag shows imho more a subtropic forrest than a west coast forrest.

Depends on which part of the west coast. Some of the redwood forests of northern California, such as in the Eureka area, look very much like the Red Stag's scenery -- very lush, with lots of ferns and moss.

[jacq01]

  Marc, thanks for the photo's, particullary the  last one with the Santa Anita dam gives a very good impression of the landscape aiming for.

  Chester, scale effect is what I have used already a long time, but hardly discuss it for the reasons Marc mentioned. It appears many find it too difficult to think about, let stand understand what it means.

Some quick and dirty progress shots.

 
 
  Start of the topography. The pond surface is in place and treated to prevent warping during/after painting sesion.
  The part next to the dam will be redone as the gap with the dam on one side is too large.
 
 

  I'll pick up monday the foam board ( with PU core) sheets of 1,00m x 1,40m. These boards will form the background and will be 1,20m x0,50m
  The underground of the landscape is made of PU foam and after shaping will be covered by paperstrips reinforced with full strength white glue, except in places where rocks etc will be visible.

Rail for the through line is in place, fully faired with easements. The ME rail is very stiff so I had to use a fairing spline to get a nice even curve.
Tomorrow the log dump track will be laid together with the gauntlet track. As soon as the electric wires are soldered, the track will be cleaned and prepared for painting.

Jacq

 
 

[marc_reusser]

I like the layout of the scene, and the view along the length of the module towards the mill has a really nice feel.

...but...(you knew there was one coming ) I am not particularly fond of the cut or tunnel that will hide the continuing/loop track.  Can you devise soemthing better...maybe as suggeted with Pats project, a clump of trees, or some sort of biece of structure,  maybe a slab wood conveyor across the track and some piping, and maybe a small elevated wooden footbridge, a gantry crane...or a combination of these to hide clear view of the cut/opening/tunnel?


MR

[jacq01]

  Marc,   
   
 

Can you devise soemthing better...

  I fully agree with you, it is (was  )  the weakest spot in the design as from the far end of the layout it was possible to see the cut out and there was no /little room to camouflage it without distorting the scene.
On paper it is a bit  hard to see how much space is left for realistic scenery in the small spaces on both sides of the track.

A scenic dilemma dissappeared as your remark triggered a train of thoughts and solutions.
I will now definitely put in a wall on the far side in the mill as part of the solution. I removed and rerouted the track and switch on the mill module in such a way that is now not possible to see the passage through the cut out in the back wall when looking at track level from the other side of the pond.
Photo's will be put up after the mess is cleared and scenery base in place, so a little patience....    

The same as with the seat in your cubby I can't leave it and have to find an alternative.

Jacq

[jacq01]

  results of the last few days.

 
 
 

  The track has been redirected and the switch repositioned to create enough room to make it very ifficult to see the cut out to the back.


 

  This view is, when the layout is finished, not possible. Compare with the one that triggered Marc's remark.

 


Rail ties not painted yet. Primer still visible.



first set up of logdump.



Basics done, dump still to be treated for wear and tear and set into the shore side prior to permanent position in module.
This item will be built as a seperate unit complete with all scenic parts.




log dump freely based on Pino Grande with the shore side and unloading facility a la Madera Sugarpine.



log brow to be laid out to give support for the bunks when unloading.



gauntlet switch built in situ. switch rod to be connected after ballasting.



detail of gauntlet. waiting for special spikes. When these ar in, ties will receive final paint and ballast will go in.

All wiring for modules is finished so it was a very good modeling weekend. The first train ran very very good 

One question for the Californians:  It is difficult to determine the color of the soil in cut outs. On many photo's the slopes appear to be normal earth interlaced with smaller rocks topped by the normal forrest ground cover. What is the prevailing color of these slopes??

Jacq




 

[NORCALLOGGER]

Jacq,
Being a Californian and a logging modler I'll take a stab at helping.
Just about any normal dirt color is found here and sometimes changes dramatically
from one spot to another within just a couple of miles.  I assume your modeling the central/south Sierra range and the predominate rock is granit in the mountains but the foot hills will have very little indication of granit colors in most places. 

If your modeling a specific area you will probably have to find someone to walk the ground for you and send photos and dirt samples so you can get exact colors.

If your seeing cut banks with soil and small rock they are probably foot hill locations up to 2500 feet normally in the mountains the cuts will be pretty much solid rock with just a soil layer along the top edge.  But again this depends on exact locations.

I don't think cut banks would show much in the way of "normal forest groundcover" such as; top soil, dead leaves and pine needles, dead and rotting wood, fungus, and small understory brush.  Mostly they would remain bare erroded dirt/rock with a small amount of grass and brush in the crevices where sediment has washed in. 


Your modeling work is beautiful and I admire it very much.  I don't mean this to be critical, but.  Something about your log rollway bothers my eye.  What holds the top roll timbers in place?  They are not notched in or saddled to be self supporting from the natural downhill slide and that is a steep rollway looks at least 30 degrees.  The track side end of the timbers overhang the middle support so much I can just see the first log off the car teeter tottering them right up in the air.

Like I said, not a critic but it just doesn't look natural to me.  But then that's just me.

I am really enjoying following your build.
Rick Marty

[marc_reusser]

Jacq,

Your log dump looks way too new, and too short.

Top image his is the BLCo. dump (California). You can aslo see the cut hill behind it (length along track). Note that the rollway is about 2-1/2 car lengths long, and as the cars in the image are Russel pattern #2 cars, they are typically 20'-6" long. Which makes the rollway around 50' in width.

Bottom image, note that they have added iron straps to the top of the rollway logs. Note also as noted by Rick, how the top end of the sloped logs is nothed into the brow-log.

[marc_reusser]

Top image, the rollway logs seem to have very light gauge RR track on the top. This rollway is probably at keast 30' or so long (along the track).

Bottom image is just  for example of small cut (California)

[marc_reusser]

Both images in California. Note how worn both dumps are.

Note in the top image how the rollway logs are notched into the brow log.

The bottom imgage you can see the hillside cut behind the dump.

[marc_reusser]

I am posting this image in contrast to the previous ones, and only because it is the closest one I had on hand that resembled your rollway timbers.

...BUT....here again, note how the the rollway logs are inotched into/over the brow log. Note also the length of this dump. (guessibng why, I would have to say because they probably had a traveling unloader (one that moved along the dump length on  a seperate parallel track).  Lastly....the reason this dump is so pristine and perfect, is because as written on back of the photo "first load of logs at the dump".....so this is a brand new construction.

[marc_reusser]

There is another alternative method of unloading the top dump if they didn't use a traveling unloader, and that is that they were just parbuckled off, like in this image of the Crossett Lumber Company (note in this image how the sloped rollway logs have horizontal blocking between them at the top and bottom).

[jacq01]

 
  Rick,

  the log dump at the track side is not finished yet as I have to tune the height of the brow to the underside of the bunks.
  A notched connection with a horizontal beam sitting on a vertical support is not put in place yet.
  This is a first set up with some cut lumber to see or it will fit in place and not dominate too much.

  Marc,

  thanks for the information on the length of the dump. With this first test unit, a lá Pino Grande, a larger one will for sure dominate too much.
  I didn't spent time on giving it a used and beaten appearance as I am not  sure or this will be the final solution.
  I like the Brooking and Bradley log dumps as they fit the landscape snugly and do not dominate so much. The Bradley dump appears to have a more standard gin pole unloading set up, while the Brooking has a set up like the WSLC. with the gin line on a trolley and the winch on an island or opposite side of the pond.

I'll do a set up to see which one looks best and give the most reliable operating performance.

Jacq

[Marc988]

Tonight I saw a few pictures of a concrete log dump at one of the mills of the Sugar Pine Lumber company. You can find the pictures on the pages 28 & 31 in "The Whistles Blow No More" book.

Maybe this is an interesting suggestion for your log dump ?!

[NORCALLOGGER]

Jacq,
Yes, of course it is not finished yet, I should have realized that and refrained from commenting.
Keep up the good work
Rick Marty

[Philip Smith]

Jacq,
This is a great project. From what I've read, the entire thread several times, you have turned over each and every stone researching this project. Thanks for sharing the data! Your fellow loggers have done an excellent job with additional research and documentation.

thanks to all!

standing in the woodline,
Philip