Jacq's Logging Project Discussion

[finescalerr]

The coloring "problem" doesn't bother me at all. Concrete doesn't always have uniform coloration. I very much like the texture and overall appearance and the ground cover and vegetation only enhance the overall effect. You are painfully aware of everything that doesn't look the way you hoped or expected. Since I have no such expectations, I'm simply blown away by the modeling. -- Russ

[jacq01]

 

The coloring "problem" doesn't bother me at all

The nitpicking finicky rest will do that for you  You got yor troops wel organised 


Here some more photo's with "daylight"  during the last weeks the camera has been used to shoot a very larg amount of photo's and nobody ( of course I blame the rest of the family  ) thought about charging the empty battery pack.

 
 
  The trial of the landscape mock up. There is a slope of approx 3:1 from the high side to ground ( 40-45mm high)


 

  birds eye view.  the acryl template fits very wel around the dam, pity it is too small to cover the rest of the module's water area.
  Color is too blue. Transition shallow to deep water painted on foam and template laid over it.  I am in doubt to use mdf or acryl for the watersurface as it will be treated with acryl gloss extra heavy medium for little waves and to stick floating debris like bark etc .


 

  Here the "spots" in the plaster where the wash is behaving differently. Normally I have an even color, which can be varied with the consistency. Now I have to apply an opaque layer and lose a bit of the "porous" effect of the plaster.



Detail of the new wall and what will be seen by the visitors. 

Marc

.that small arced piece near the front edge just gives me the heebie-jeebies....looks like a chip area waiting to happen during transport or display.

On my H0 layout I had a similar part (cut through bridge) and never encountered problems. When the dam part is fully cured, it will be rock hard and less prone to damages than the module corners. During transport it is protected by a corrugated plastic dust sheet.

Jacq




 

[Chuck Doan]

I'm liking it Jacq! I really like the ground cover in front of the dam.

[RoughboyModelworks]

It's looking very good Jacq, colouring is much improved now. I think it's safe to say that when finished this will be the best mill by a dam site or is it best dam by a mill site...

Paul

[finescalerr]

Paul, go stand in the corner! Until February. -- Russ

[marc_reusser]

Im sorry...but I will need to be a bit contrary here.....and maybe it's all due to the lighting...but I will put it out there anyway.

The concrete coloring seems to cool grey in tone. (the scenery does also a bit...but I'll get there later)....
Yes concrete color varies wildly....but we need to consider a couple of elements here.

The crushed stone and sand that was used in mix (which was likely the stone/material in the area)
The effect of the elements on the concrete.
The natural lighting on the materail (by this I mean the real world lat/long of the light and it's inherent efect on the visual)

...all this leads me to say that the concrete should be a bit wermer in color...more "beige-ish" (Chucks gas station project would be a good example, as it is in the same general region and environment.


Now...to digress a bit on this and over to the scenery........I think color and feel of groundwork and capturing the essence of actual/realworld local is really difficult when modeling something outside ones region; be it me modeling Europe, or someone in Europe modeling the US..or even me trying to do East Coast...or somone on the east coast modeling California.  Our eyes and senses are tuned to see, associate, interpret coloring in nature and materials as we are used to seeing them on a regular basis....and this relates unconciously into our creations...no matter how hard we try to copy from photos of the other local....we almost always will subconciously infuse what we know from our surroundings.  In this case, I would say that the ground coloring and greenery, is more European than California (Yosemite/Fresno/Merced area), which despite it's lush forest canopy in areas, has an underlying (or overlying) dusty and dry feel......that doesn't mean it's not a green and and lush forest...but everything is blanketed by this sort of parched and arid atmosphere, with a fine layer of dust, and "dry", over everything...and then the whole scene is washed-out/faded in the typical California sun.  It's hard to describe, one has to stand in it, and see/feel it....the same way one has to stand in a lush, moist, European forest to get the true essence/mood/feel for it. It's almost an intangible element.


Marc

[finescalerr]

You would notice that. But I must admit, however grudgingly, you make a good point. -- Russ

[jacq01]

  Marc,

 

Our eyes and senses are tuned to see, associate, interpret coloring in nature and materials as we are used to seeing them on a regular basis....and this relates unconciously into our creations...no matter how hard we try to copy from photos of the other local....we almost always will subconciously infuse what we know from our surroundings.

And that is/was bothering me. You are dead right in that observation.  Also the season modelled is an impoortant factor.

Looking at some "references" it stuck me that p.e. Red Stag shows imho more a subtropic forrest than a west coast forrest.



a relative "dusty" impression of the shore around the dam and "coniferous" colours.



a bit of a difference from the same area. Different season ? Photoshop ? 
I have a lot more photo's of the area from the web to get a feeling of the colors and light. Most photo's are holiday shots but in contrast with "official" photo's they do show the area more realistic I think.

I prefer to go for the coloring and atmosphere of photo 1.  I think close to the water the colors will be more vivid, especially in early summer.
I agree with your observation that the dam's color is too cold, the agregate's color is not showing. Here we have an additional difficulty in the different treatment of the damwall sides. The waterside was put on hydraulically ( smooth) the dry side in the casing with the mix showing clearly. Another point is the geographic position. the dry side never sees the sun. On the wet side of the dam the influence of air/water surface is also showing its effect.

The old bw photo's do help a lot with the consistency and airidity of the landscape with their dusty appearance, the colors will be the hardest to catch, especially with the workshop lights being the main illumination on the moment. this is always very difficult as the lights in exhibition halls do have a large influence on the colors, even with a enclosed viewing box.

You hit the nail and it took away an uneasy feeling I had, on which I wasn't able to put a finger.
Now the challenge how to solve this to my satisfaction.

Thanks
Jacq

[RoughboyModelworks]

Excellent point Marc and your description of the landscape in these parts as dusty and washed-out is spot on. The landscape at a distance tends to have a rather monochromatic feel about it, especially in the summer and fall. Harsh colours and contrast just don't appear here.

Concerning the photos Jacq, the top is definitely closer to the real thing here. The lower photo is enhanced and totally unrealistic, typical calendar shot. One of my common beefs about most models is that the colouring is too harsh, too many conflicting tones and values. I've mentioned it before concerning your 1:87 display layout, you have excellent overall control of your colour palette. There is an understated consistency and subtlety to the colouring in that layout which adds greatly to the believability in your representation. Colour perception is entirely subjective, each of us perceives it differently which is what makes this process so difficult. Since it's not practical for you to stomp about the area you're modelling collecting colour samples, the best you can do is refer to photographic references. Following Marc's suggestion, if you go towards a warm dusty, washed-out feeling, the result should be a more accurate representation.

BTW, do you use daylight-balanced lighting in your workshop and for lighting on the finished layout?

Paul

[finescalerr]

As Marc and Paul point out, Photo 1 should be your guide. Notice the light tan color of the earth and the olive green tint to the foliage, very typical of California. The ground is always dry and dusty. Everything exists in drought conditions from April to December. Nearly all the grass is dry and light yellow.

Your photos didn't bother me because they are reasonably close to winter/early spring colors and I rarely am picky about scenic treatment as long as it seems somewhat plausible. But, if you are going for clinical accuracy, you should consult our Resident Geniuses; their observations are painfully accurate.

Russ

[jacq01]

 

But, if you are going for clinical accuracy, you should consult our Resident Geniuses; their observations are painfully accurate.

  Why otherwise go through all the troubles finding accurate information on structures and machinery ??
  Not really clinical as I used my modelers licence to alter some things , the colors are a very important in trying to create a diorama with the correct californian mountain atmosphere. 
This is one of the main challenges I face with my european background and lack of easy access to the original references. It feels like opening an empty "experience"book where all these new impressions find a place.  Mixing it with other experiences is hardly possible except for some basic techniques. Standing strongly in my shoes, on what I want and do admit what I don't know  , is very important, otherwise I would have lost track of my goals by all the advises.

  Jacq

[chester]

Jacq, the concrete work is excellent and I can't imagine how it might be improved.
   I too find it difficult to find true colors from photos. All to often, it's enhanced in the developing process and/or simply poorly developed. Also consider that the camera only can capture what the photographer himself and the quality of his camera is capable of. I've read often the complaints of military modelers trying to exact the colors of certain pieces using old photos that just can't be relied upon for true color evaluation.
   Because of the 'scale effect' rule, I strive to wash out and tone down colors anyway (as well as sheen) particularly since I do such a small scale. By the way, I rarely hear discussion of the scale effect here. Does it need to be given relevance in this situation?

[marc_reusser]

Chester:
I am a huge believer in the concept of scale effect, and have brought it up frequently on other other RR forums where it received at best dead silence to nay-saying.  I think the slight bit of extra thought and effort it takes discourages most from applying it. Not all colors though require altering, IE there are so many shades of Vallejo paints out there you can almost get the shade/hue you need right from the get go (and often one needs to mix colors to get the correct/desired one anyhow). It's primarily the strong (deep chroma) or "out of the bottle prototype colors" that need this. On vehicles and locos much can also be done post painting, with panel fading, and fading with artists oils.

Jacq:
As mentioned by others, the upper photo is much closer to reality (I have never seen anyplace here look like the bottom image...well maybe once in Lake Tahoe or Tuolumne Meadows when I was really wasted  ).
As Paul said, the way to think about most of California is dry and arrid....despite what green tones you may see. Think of it as place that even where green trees and bushes may exist,  it will go up like a Roman candle and become a fire-storm with just the slightest spark (which btw happens many times across the state each year). Other than a maybe 2-3 months in spring, the ground cover here consists of almost entirely of yellow grasses, with some interspersed muted green shrubs.


MR

[marc_reusser]

I am sure you probably have already found these of the Huma Lake dam:











Some of these came from a set of FLICKR images re Hume Lake
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eddingrid/1563902830/


FWIW, here are some photos of the local dam (Devil's Gate Dam) here in Pasadena.

This is the dam from the inside:






This is the downstream side (btw...note the forest fires in the background):




This is the Sierra Madre dam (next town over from Pasadena):






This is the Santa Anita dam (also in next town over)




MR

[RoughboyModelworks]

Good photos Marc. It is easy to see the warm tones in the concrete evident in all the photos. The last photo is very typical of much of the landscape. Judging by the green foliage and water level, it would appear to be a late spring or early summer shot. As Marc says Jacq, during the summer much of what is green in that shot will be muted green at the most, if not yellow and brown.

I was up in the foothills yesterday and though we've had a fair amount of moisture (fog mostly), the ground cover is still dusty and muted. We have a fair bit of sage and manzanita in ground cover here abouts and the green is never more than muted. The evergreens are green of course, but still retain a dusty feel, rather like the trees in the fifth photo below.

Dust is prevalent. By the late fall, prior to any rain, it coats everything, even the leaves on trees and shrubbery. It takes several rains to wash it off, but it returns very quickly at the end of the rainy season, usually March or early April. It's impossible to keep a clean car here...

Paul