Pipe work

[Gordon Ferguson]

Evening all ................. help/assistance please.

I have 3 projects all of which have ground to a halt over my inability to produce realistic pipework !

I need to replicate typically 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 inch diameter steel/galvanised pipework including ,importantly bends which according to my research are normally cast parts, which appear to have a slightly larger diameter than the straight pipework and also have a raised rim at the joint between the bend and the straight pipe. Also need to make some valves etc but had more success here using beads etc

Scale ...... in both 1/24 and 1/35

Any thoughts folks would be much appreciated.#

Thanks 

[granitechops]

Gordon, is this greenhouse, factory, hot water piping?
Scrapped miles of this in the past, the straights had threaded ends which screwed into the elbows & other fittings, the rim on the ends of the fittings  usually had a smooth half round rim on them, not a square one, you might find that just fittings same size as pipe & dress with half round microstip might 'fool' the eye, and/or maybe an extra coat or two of thick acrylic on the fittings might suffice before finsh applied might work.
After all if my calculation is correct the extra thickness would only be the wall thickness of the pipe,
which for example ( only guessing here) might be 1/8th inch, would in scale equate to just a tad over 3 thou thick


You see, you will model in these infinatly small scales!!!!!     

[Gordon Ferguson]

You are right Don, the numbers are small .............. but it always amazes me how the human eye can spot even a couple of thou error on something !

Pipework is Oil related , fuel tanks , oil field stuff and in the pictures I have looks exactly like you described

[NORCALLOGGER]

Hi Gordon,
There are a few variables here, as I am sure you are aware.

What is the piping application?
What is the era?

These two items will make a huge difference in what style piping you use.

Galvanized pipe was generally only used for water, and a piss poor choice it was as time
let us know.  Galvy pipe was generally always screw fitting thus the ells, tees, valves, unions, couplings etc were about 3/8 inch thicker (OD) then the pipe.  Generally speaking full sweep was not used for the standard 1/2, 1/4 or 1/8th bend but just the tight bend.


Welded pipe generally used for things like steam, and chemical solution were always full sweep bends and the bends and tees were the same (OD) as the pipe.  This was generally black iron, stainless steel, or in some cases, copper or aluminum.

There is at least one more coupling system that was/is used for things like fire sprinklers, water lines, etc.  This system uses a groove cut into the ends of the pipes about 3/8 wide by 3/16 deep then the pipes are butted together and a large steel clamp with a rubber sleeve is bolted over the joint.

Waste water plumbing piping opens a whole nother bunch of types.

What are you doing?

Rick

[Seattle Dave]

Trackside Details.com has ALL you need in the way of piping unions, elbows and angles and globe valves and faucets, and, and, and..... (pant, pant, pant)

Go through his illustrated parts list.  the stuff is great, and not TOO expensive (I think)

Dave

[granitechops]

Its interesting about Galvanised piping, what we were cutting up was in 1960-70 time frame,
stuff that was possibly 20 to 50 years old, usually the exterior was reasonably OK, but the bore would be corroded  or furred up, usually  any corrosion would work through from the inside out, except of course in corrosive environments.
Just a word of warning
DONT flame cut in an enclosed space without breathing apparatus or forced ventilation
the blue cloud is a nerve gas.
Now in my garden there is a clothes pole I planted over 30 years ago, was already old then, protected at top with a tight 90 degree bend, keeps most of the rain out (but not the Bluetits ) it has had the odd coat of paint, but the only outward sign of corrosion is where the previous rust has eventually worked through from the inside over a short length where there was a longditudinal seam, the seam now swelling  apart

EDIT
Rick said  >>  There is at least one more coupling system that was/is used for things like fire sprinklers, water lines, etc.  This system uses a groove cut into the ends of the pipes about 3/8 wide by 3/16 deep then the pipes are butted together and a large steel clamp with a rubber sleeve is bolted over the joint. <<
Yes you just reminded me Rick, saw that type of joint on 4-5inch cast iron water heating circulation pipes in the larger greenhouse applications possibly Victorian era?
Twin pipes one above the other with 3" ? spacing
That of course did not have a groove, but very shallow square flanges cast in the ends at manufacture

[chester]

What do you intend to use to model the pipe Gordon? I used some aluminum tubing used by R/C model airplane enthusiasts for fuel lines, bent the pipe and then slid a piece of heat shrink tubing over the bend. This showed OK for a 4" diameter pipe in 1/87 scale but you may be able to use for the larger scale if the piping you model with will withstand the heating to shrink the tubing tight to the pipe.

[Gordon Ferguson]

Thanks folks for the suggestions, tried to provide answers to the specific questions asked;-

Rick,
I am looking at 1930's thro to late 50's as a timescale, the photo references I have seem to indicate steel/iron pipe as described with threaded ends which are screwed into cast pipe bends/unions.
As I said as used in oil industry/oil fields mostly in California/Texas

Chester,

that is a neat idea with the heat shrink tube, was going to use plastic but can easily switch to brass to use this technique.

Dave,

have not seen any of the Trackside stuff, may order a few bits to see what its like but I have some doubts as I have never seen cast stuff that is truly round

[Les]

Came across a kit made by Pegasus as a Chemical Set a while back. No idea of plastic used but the kit appears to be a snap fix and there is no mention of scale or idea of sizes.
This forum link shows the components with one sprue of pipe fittings and others that look interesting for whats on the other sprues  http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/?showtopic=31977
I would be interested to know more about it myself
Les

[Scratchman]

Here's the link to Trackside Details.

http://www.tracksidedetails.com/

Gordon Birrell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77318580@N00/

[narrowgauger]

Hi Gordon

method I have used for years in 48 & 35th scale as follows:

- pipe runs are made from standard electrical copper wiring with insulation removed, say 0.7mm copper wire.

- straighten wire in the usual way with pin vice at one end and pliers the other turn whilst keeping the wire under tension;

- pipe run is formed as a single length with all bends in place, including all straights etc.

- remove the very fine copper wires from flexible electrical wire, the very fine ones around 0.1 to 0.15mm.  try to find the finest wire.

- wrap this very fine wire around the "pipes" at all junctions, starting around 0.5mm from the inside of the bend and continue until around 0.5mm past the bend. touch with some flux and solder the wrapped wire at this stage.  continue until all the bends are completed the same way. 

- take some new copper wire around double the diameter of the very thin copper wire used to form the "bends" form into rings around the same diameter wire used for the main "pipe" and cut into individual rings. place one of these very small rings at each bend and solder in place to form the thicked bend on the outer edge of real pipe fittings.

- the same method works with all "pipe" diameters by simply increasing the diameters of the wire use to form the junctions.  "Tees" etc are formed the same way.

sounds difficult, but in reality it is actually a very quick way of achieving "screwed pipe joints" without the problems associated with soldering multiple joints if the pipe run is made from small pieces and soldered at each change in direction.  this is due to the fact that you are working with a single piece of wire.

if you want the real McCoy the only solution it to source the pipe joints from Precision Scale Models (PSC) who have a wide range of diameters in their O-Scale line-up thyat can be used in 48th and 35th.  However this does not solve the problem of forming complex pipe runs and also costs the earth.

hope this helps.

have fun
Bernard

[NORCALLOGGER]

Gordon,

The Track Side parts are generally very acceptable but are cast from a hard brass so that sprue cleanup and drilling is a bit of a job sometimes. 

I have used their pipe fittings on several projects and have been very satisfied, but they have a limited range and anything other than valves you still have to come up with on your own.

I have used small nuts slid on to each side of a bend and filled with epoxy then filed to shape.
Also the heat shrink tubing in one or more layers as needed.
Have also used solid electrical wire # 14 or #12 and left the insulation in place for the fittings, the problem with this is the insulation does not really like to conform to the tight bends.  For full sweep ells it works well.

Sounds like your piping oil rigs and pumps so the piping would all be pretty standardized, in other words not a bunch of mismatched cobbled together effects that you might expect to encounter on a donkey engine or old pile driver boiler.

Luck,
Rick

[David Emery]

I got an 'approximation' in HO scale.  I used 1/16 Plastruct round stock (the kind that has a steel rod in the middle) and round pliers (e.g. those pliers used to adjust Kadee couplers).  I carefully bent the angle by molding around the appropriate diameter part of the pliers.  Then I cut slices from Evergreen (I think, I'm away from the shop and can't double check which brand I used for this) tubing that had a 1/16" inside diameter something like 3/32" outside diameter.  I slipped these two rings on either side of the right-angle bend in the 1/16 stock, and that looks pretty close to a 90 degree elbow -with a flange- represented by the 3/32" stock.  As the steam line for my machine shop boiler, this is good enough...

dave

[billmart]

Dripping Springs Loco Works offers several sizes of 3D printed pipe fittings through Shapeways  (  http://www.shapeways.com/shops/shay   ).  These fittings require no drilling.  Each end of each fitting has a projection that slips into a specific size of thin-walled brass tubing.  Cut the tubing to the length you want, then slip a pipe fitting into it.  There are 6 sizes available.  The smallest size uses 1/16 inch OD thin-walled brass tubing for pipe.  The largest uses 11/64 inch OD thin-walled brass tubing for pipe.  I've started using some of these and I really like them.

Bill M.

[Bexley]

Verlinden set, 1/35, with some plumbing fittings.