B9 Bonanza!

[Chuck Doan]

 

[finescalerr]

It is becoming clear that 3-D printing is a delicate process requiring a lot of experience. As with many disciplines, the operator is more important than the machine. -- Russ

[Hauk]

It is becoming clear that 3-D printing is a delicate process requiring a lot of experience. As with many disciplines, the operator is more important than the machine. -- Russ

That is my conclusion, too.

So I have given up the thought of getting a 3D printer myself. Even if it i less convinient, I think  that in the end I will spend less time and money pr. part if I use commercial providers. And now that Shapeways has announces Frosted Extreme Detail with 16 micron layers, I am even more sure I will not sink several thousand dollars into getting a printer for my workshop.

A personal 3D printer is a hobby in itself, and I will rather spend my time researching prototypes and making the neccesary scale drawings and prepare artwork for etchings, 3D models for printing etc.

This said, I am impressed by the effort Bexley is putting into getting the most out of his B9. The results are already mighty impressing, especially considering that he has used the machine only for a few days!

His postings in this thread is a veritable gold mine for scale modellers that plan to get a B9. As always, the information you get on this forum is incredible.

[SandiaPaul]

Agreed with the others that there seems to be(like in everything) a lot more to the story!

It does occurs to me though that the "failed" prints might make for good junk, you might even be able to sell them as such. At the least they would make for good painting practice.

Paul

[lab-dad]

Where would I begin to try and learn basic CAD to draw parts to then send to shapeways?
Is this even possible to learn and have usable parts?
It would have to be something I could do in my spare time, formal classes wouldn't work (right now).
I can draft using paper & pencil but no idea about CAD.
I work at a technical college so I "could" get with our instructor here when I get stuck.
Is sketch-up a good starting point or should i just buck up and learn the real thing?
Of course spending hundreds on software does not appeal to me either.

Marty

[Hydrostat]

Where would I begin to try and learn basic CAD to draw parts to then send to shapeways?
Is this even possible to learn and have usable parts?
Is sketch-up a good starting point or should i just buck up and learn the real thing?

Marty,

it depends on what you're going to achieve. SU is a good starting point when it's about 3D-printing. And it's free. Whenever you're going to have some parts cnc milled / lathed - forget it. For that I'd prefer a professional CAD program. I think they start at about 1.000 € or something (Rhino 3D) - but: If you're working in educative sector for example Autodesk offers special free or low cost licences. Anyway - it takes time to learn those programs and you will easily spend much more time at the computer than at the bench.

Even if it i less convinient, I think  that in the end I will spend less time and money pr. part if I use commercial providers.

You nailed it.

Volker

[Bexley]

I think a lot of the people here use Sketchup. I know it used to require plugins to get printable files, but that was a long time ago, and it might be able to export .STLs natively now. It's a pretty good program, though it does have some quirks to it at times. I used it quite a bit before learning Solidworks.

[eTraxx]

You can get a Student's copy of Solidworks with a DD 214 for $20. James Lincoln dropped by the other day and gave me a short and swift tutorial on using it. For now I will stick with SU. I learned from tutorials on YouTube. Combined with MeshLab and netFabb you are really not limited .. Mr Lincoln pretty much hit the mark when he compared SU and Solidworks to a Model T and a Ferrari. In the end, both will get you there but the Ferrari is more comfortable and faster.

I will hold judgement on Shapeway's FXD. The news release only mentioned the decrease in the Z-axis from 29 microns to 16 microns. That will of course help with the stepping hyou get .. that is a 55% reduction after all in layer height. There was no mention of any change in the X,Y resolution so I have to wonder about how that will work with the halved Z resolution. FUD has a minimum of 0.1mm which works out to a 254 dpi resolution for FUD. Thing is .. we are working in three dimensions so .. just how halving the Z axis resolution and keeping the same X,Y resolution will work .. who knows. I surely don't.

Here's another photo of the last bits I got from Shapeways .. this time stacked using Helicon Focus .. and ALL the warts show. Some of the roughness can be attributed to unsanded primer but not all .. pretty much showing the (by my calculations) 254 dpi of FUD.

[Bexley]

Yeah, my experience with Sketchup was that it was great, and it it did a lot of cool stuff. I used it quite a bit, but after learning Solidworks, I was constantly running up against the things that SU doesn't do.

[finescalerr]

SketchUp is less suited to parts with compound curves. You can create them but the expensive programs do them easily and probably with greater precision. For most stuff we would create, SketchUp works quite well. Ed Traxler is our resident guru.  He really knows SketchUp and can help you out of a lot of jams. Marc is an expert, too, and probably would help if he ever pops back in. He did take the trouble to create a basic SketchUp tutorial here and it definitely will get you started. It's in the stickies and easy to find. -- Russ

[mabloodhound]

For all my CAD drawings for the laser cutter I use a simple free program called DoubleCad XT2.   
I design all my kits in this program but they are only 2 dimensional.

For my 3D parts, I do everything in free SketchUp following Ed Traxlers tutorials.   
There are some quirks in learning how to get those curves that Russ mentioned but there is help out there.

I'm just not into spending money for software if I don't have to.  And my results are satisfactory.

[finescalerr]

Marty, the program Dave refers to is the free version of AutoCAD LT I e-mailed you about (but didn't remember the name). You will never need anything more sophisticated for the kind of stuff we do here. You should download it because it could be very useful for creating any part a laser can cut (like that stuff I drew for you and Tom at Crystal River cut). I and others here can answer any questions you have if you start to use it. -- Russ

[mabloodhound]

Yup, DoubleCad XT http://www.doublecad.com/ is put out by IMSI, the same folks who designed Turbo CAD many years ago.
And it works just like AutoCAD LT.
And another good part is that DoubleCAD can export your drawings in many different formats to work with laser cutters and CNC machines.
And as Russ said, it is all we really need for our type of modeling.

[Bexley]

No more prints for a bit. I'm heading to San Francisco for Friday and Saturday, so no prints until probably Sunday or Monday.

Discovered some things. I tried re-running the last print that failed on a brand new vat. Unfortunately, I got the same result- the print semi-failed. Worse, though, was that it ruined the PDMS, pretty much the same as last time, though not quite as heavily. This was particularly distressing, since one of the things I want to do is produce masters for model kits, and not being able to print large items without detroying the PDMS, or wrecking it after only one print was going to be a problem.

Then, I realized that I was thinking about the build table orientation wrong. The parts of the print that actually succeeded were over the destroyed part of the PDMS. So while that is still a concern, it wasn't the reason for the failure. After some intense forum-reading, I learned that I should check the flatness of the build table. Sure enough, it was warped. The areas where the print was succeeding was flat, but where the parts weren't attaching properly, the table was a little high. It was still partially printing, though, because the initial base layer was large enough to cover both the flat and high spots. I tried a short print of a single item, right in the center of the high spot. It failed entirely- essentially, each layer would print, but not attach. Then the sweeper would wipe it off of the PDMS when the vat slid over. So the end result was a vat full of resin, with all the individual layers floating around.

When I return from my short trip, I will be bonding a thicker piece of aluminum to the build table, and then flattening it with sandpaper on a granite block. This was how a number of other users solved this problem.

As for the early destruction of the PDMS, I contacted the company directly to ask about it. It was most likely over exposure of the resin. It isn't the light that wrecks the PDMS, it is the curing of the resin. Ordinarily, each layer is cured just enough to stick to the build table, then lifted off. Light from printing subsequent layers continues through the current layer into previous layers, so that over time, all the layers are cured more as the print grows. However, that fuller cure does not occur in contact with the PDMS. So I likely need to lower my exposure settings quite a bit.

Hopefully, the above solutions will work. The parts that printed well at 50 micron slices look just as good as those I printed with 25 micron slices, as the models I'm trying to print are not high detail items. But the ~50% lower print time is nice, so I'd like to be able to get this working at that slice thickness.

[finescalerr]

Are these problems common with all printers or unique to the Be-nign? It really seems to be a finicky process. -- Russ