Watery Grave

[marc_reusser]

The MIG Forum has a new "Challenge" going that started this weekend, titled  "Rusty knocked out and/or abandoned Vehicles".  the empasis is obviously on the painting and finish, and I wanted to try something new and different.

This will be a concurrent SBS thread with the one there.

...I have never built a ship, and know nothing about them....but have always been fascinated with these rusting hulks and clutter.  Here are some links to photos that will be the inspiration for this project.

http://carlosarguelles.smugmug.com/gallery/4746763_s46dP/1/285077781_AwvMN#285051729_s6V2p

http://worldwidetraveler.smugmug.com/photos/53649802_riFRY-L.jpg

http://www.opacity.us/gallery87_wrecks.htm



Scale for my project has not been determined....but will likely be somewhere between 1/64 and 1/87...sizes that I am not used to working in or visualizing.

The first step for me was to modify and rough prep the model kit hulls that will be used:  The red hull on the left is the from a 1:108-scale Revell tugboat kit; the white hull is from a 1:400-scale Revell Titanic kit.

     


The red hull will become a steel hulled boat, while the white hull will be a wood boat with metal trim, fittings &  superstructure.

The tugboat hull was assembled as per the kit. When dry the hull was sanded down on a disk sander to give the proper depth in the water, and list to one side. A shaped piece of .040" styrene sheet was attached to the bottom, to provide stability, and to prevent the future cast water from running into the hull.

On the white hull, only the sides were used  a new wider, and reshaped sub deck, and underside were made from .060" styrene

Now that I have a basic idea of how they will sit in relation to eachother, I will be better able to decide on a scale, and how to detail them. The finished scene will likely be around 10" x 11".






This will likely be a long SBS...hope you don't get bored.

Marc

[finescalerr]

This will be anything but boring and I look forward to every post. Nonetheless you're nuts. -- Russ

[jacq01]

  Marc,

  the underwater part of red hull will be touching the underwater part of the white hull.
  Are both ships sunk/ grounded or is one salvaging?
  Take with the layout and position of the hulls the non visible underwater items in account.

  When you have questions ask. I am looking forward seeing this grow.

  Jacq
 

[jacq01]

 Here a nice site with a lot of interesting details, particullary the colour photo's:

http://oboylephoto.com/boatyard/index.htm


Not as moody, but showing some interesting wrecks:

http://images.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ekudos.nl/artikel/image/86246.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ekudos.nl/artikel/86246/spectaculaire_scheepswrakken&usg=__WSL3gusP6p-NxBN1vSUi1dMdSJA=&h=64&w=64&sz=2&hl=nl&start=171&um=1&tbnid=7hdWTh4Yiu4trM:&tbnh=64&tbnw=64&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dscheepswrakken%26start%3D160%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN

Jacq

[marc_reusser]

Jacq,

Thanks for the Links/Sites. the top one I had already bookmarked.

Yes, both boats are sunk/sinking and abandoned. My intent was to show that the white hull boat has been there far longer and is in a much worse state of decay....the red hulled boat will be modeled after the one in the bottom/photo in my initial post.....just not as submerged......The idea was that it had drifted against/onto the submerged sunken white hull, and come to rest there.

I will take you up on some insight and help with the Naval Architecture...

Looking at the photo in my initial post....and considering a boat of this type and of this period (+/- 1920-35):

How high are Gunwales(?) and railings on this type size of craft?

How tall would the individual superstructure tiers be on something like this this? (IE. cabin interior head-room)

How thick would the metal be at the hull and gunwales.

Do all watertight doors open outward?


Thanks....


Marc

[jacq01]

  Marc,

  I'll prepare some sketches / drawings with scantling information today.
  WT Doors always turn outward.

  Headroom in smaller boats is generally 6'3", deckgirders approx 6" pending span and framing approx 2,5" - 3" angle on a 2'0" spacing. Miimum plating  0,25".  See coming plans.
 

  The wreck on the photo is not as old as you think.  The hull appears to be a prewar construction, the wheelhouse definetely is of a lot later date.  It is a fully welded construction with a roofoverhang that was in vogue in the 70's. I can't discover any rivets.

Jacq
 
 

[marc_reusser]

Jacq,

Thank you for the informmation. Please don't go to soo much trouble. Though very much appreciated, a good amount of this project will be "implied" rathere than 100% accurate....as you can alreaddy see by the use of available hulls. I have a tight timeline on these (between when the contest ends, and what this years work load so far will allow.)

I really am primarily trying to capture enough detail to properly and believeably convey the feel and appearance of boats that are in the same condition as in the images. I also want to add enough small detail to provide visual depth, shadows, interest, and plenty of pplaces for the weathering to take hold.

...interesting on the age...they looked a lot older to me....I guess the sea works quickly. Yes, the one in the image is a welded hull...I will be trying to replicate that. I will probably use sections of .006mm lead foil to represent this. If it is applied over an uneven base surface, it gives the appearance/feel of the bent and buckled hull like in the image (I need to conduct a final painted test of this ...but seems to do ok in the rough-up)

A couple of more questions if not a problem.:

For the metal hulled boat. How wide are deck plates for something like this?...and I assume that they would run crosswise and be installed in a staggered manner?

On wood hulled boats of this size what are a typical/common hull planking width, and deck planking width?

Lastly... What happens on both hulls, at the transition of the deck yo the hull?.....On the wood boat, does that havey beam just run from fore to aft around the hul edge and the planking die into the inside of it? both flush with eachother at the top.


Thanks Again,

Marc

[jacq01]

  Marc, 

  deckplating is laid longitudinal with the deck stringer plating as the thickest plate.
  In this size boats approx  30"to 40" x .40" and 12'0" long.
  The other deckplating width to suit openings with a thickness of .26"t0 .28"

   http://www.shf.org.au/JO-objects/JO-1927-drawings.html

This is a link to some old drawings.
The scantlings of this vessel are representative for the ones you are doing, It is a rivetted construction.

  For a welded construction the inside of the plating is the measurement side. The frames do not need to be joggled this way making building very easy. Plate sizes are normally governed by the handling capacity at the yard and the curvatures of the location on the hull.
  Have a good look at the shell expansion as it showes the standard lay out of plating. Replace the overlaps with welding seams and you get a good idea of how the plating is arranged.
The upper deck plan does show the plating arrangement around openings.
The ventilation plan shows plenty of details.

Normally the height of the wheelhouse is headroom + structure +  8" to 10" raised floor to accomodate equipment and cabling.

As a comparisson here the construction details of a wooden boat.

http://www.mothershipadventures.com/Columbia_III/ColumbiaHistory.htm

  Jacq

[TRAINS1941]

Hey Marc,

Before you go sailing off (or steaming off) across the big blue ocean.

Whatever happened to the 1/35 Gas Mechanical you were working on?  Just curious.
Well the ship building should be interesting.

Jerry

[Hauk]

The MIG Forum has a new "Challenge" going that started this weekend, titled  "Rusty knocked out and/or abandoned Vehicles".  the empasis is obviously on the painting and finish, and I wanted to try something new and different.

Great idea!
Looking forward to see your contribution progressing.

But I often get this error message when trying to visit the Mig forums:

"phpBB : Critical Error

Could not query config information

DEBUG MODE

SQL Error : Invalid object name 'migforum_config'.

SELECT * FROM migforum_config

Line : 219
File : common.php"

Anybody else having problems?

Regards, Hauk.

[marc_reusser]

Jacq:
Thanks again. Two sites with great information. I will print it out and go through it over the weekend...and may have a few more questions then if that is okay.  No modeling for the next few days...in the middle of a multi-day photo shoot, and am lucky just to get home, eat something and find my way to the bed.


Jerry:
The 1/35 Gas Meech is not dead...it's in the chipping and weathering phase...something I need to be in the right frame of mind for....but it is still a "cuurent" in progress work.  I just need to get these two boats built so I don't run out of time for the painting at the end.


Hauk:
That used to be an old problem with the forum, but since the forum has been moved to the new server and provider, as well as using a new forum type/SMF(?)....you should not be getting this problem. I haven't had it occur or heard of it since.  You might have the old forum link stored;  below is the new one. Note: some of the sections will not be visible available as non-registerd user; If you were registered previously, your registration is/should still be active.
http://www.migproductionsforums.com/phpBB3/


Marc

[james_coldicott]

Hi Marc,

don't know if these pics are any use but when I saw this ship last year just off the Oregon coast I took loads of snaps for a potential modelling project.

Looking forward to seeing your progress on this one.

Regards

James

[Hauk]

That used to be an old problem with the forum, but since the forum has been moved to the new server and provider, as well as using a new forum type/SMF(?)....you should not be getting this problem. I haven't had it occur or heard of it since.  You might have the old forum link stored;  below is the new one. Note: some of the sections will not be visible available as non-registerd user; If you were registered previously, your registration is/should still be active.
http://www.migproductionsforums.com/phpBB3/

Thanks! That was the problem.

[shropshire lad]

Hi James ,

   Glad to see you around this neck of the woods , you should fit in well , being the superior type of modeller that you are. So are you going to enter either or both of the competitions ( the other being Russ's ) ? I'm sure you could knock up something over a couple of weekends !

  Are you going to have a go at building the boat in your picture ? It would finally give a use for that bottle of Day-Glo green you bought all those years ago . If you haven't kept it you can always borrow mine !

  See you at Shepton Mallet next month?

   Nick 

[marc_reusser]

James:
Welcome to the forum.
Thanks for the two photos some very good information and inspiration to be gleened from them.


Hauk:
Glad it worked hope to see you there as well.


Marc