VINYL SIGN MAKING

[NORCALLOGGER]

Hi all,
Haven't been a forum member for a week yet and here I am asking for help.
My question has to do with printing model signage with an INKJET printer on self sticking vinyl sheets.
I have the sheets and can print to them.  Where I am having trouble is finding a way or a program to
make the sign boards or backgrounds to put the lettering on.  Anyone have any information they would like to share
on how to do this? 

Thanks for your time.
Rick Marty

[chester]

My only suggestion is that you find vector based software to avoid the 'pixelation' (correct word?) that comes when reducing fonts and/or graphics. I'm on a Mac and use an older version of MacDraft with decent results on a variety of decal papers.

[LaserM]

I'm not sure I understand the question.  Are you having trouble printing clean graphics or making a sign you can stick the graphics to? 

[NORCALLOGGER]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the interest, I will try to explain my problem more clearly.

There is available, and I have used, a white adhesive vinyl film (peel & stick) media that can be
ran through an ink-jet printer.  It is a great media for making signage in large scale modeling.  You can
download signs from the NET print them to this media and peel & stick.  Instant Sign.  You can also
add any text that you want and print that.  This media is used for printing "bumper stickers" and with a
over spray of UV protection it holds up very well outside in the elements.

My problem.

When printing my own signs like "JOE'S DINER"  I would like to add a frame or border or even a background
to the sign instead of just a blank white space with the lettering on it.  I can't seem to find any program on my computer
or on the net that will let me do this.  I have seen programs for sale for sign making in the 3-4 hundred dollar range
but these are for sign shops with laser cutters etc., way more than I need.

Any ideas?
Thanks.
Rick Marty

[marc_reusser]

Best for this is something like Adobe Illustrator or one of the other Adobe Suite programs....but these are expensive and have a pretty fair learning curve.

If you are running a PC and have a fairly recent OS installed you should have included in that, a very basic graphics program called "Paint"  (this can be found under start/accessories/paint). It is not the most intuitive to use (because of its level of quality...but I have used it successfully before).

Microsoft Word (at least my 2007 Pro version) will also allow you to do a good bit of graphics and design work and some type manipulation....and should probably do the trick for what you need.

Otherwise, if you happen to have purchased/loaded the Office/Pro version of the Microsoft suite, it includes a program called "Publisher";  though not as good as Illustrator, or even the old Quark..... it can do some pretty decent stuff and more type manipulation if you learn how to use it.

I don't have a Mac.....but I understand there is a very basic drawing program called Corel Draw, that might also do the trick.

Hope this is of some help.

Marc

[LaserM]

If you are using a Mac, there are a lot of applications available to create your graphics, even some very powerful free applications.  The point is as Mark pointed out, you need some sort of drawing or painting application that you are comfortable with.  For creating signs, I find it easiest to use a drawing type application such as Illustrator, CorelDraw, or one of the many CAD applications.  Most of these are not cheap and all take a fair amount of time (and maybe an evening class to learn.  The advantage of these is that they all create line-art.  (By the way, only use truetype or postscript fonts, not the older bitmap fonts.)  The advantage of line art is that it is easily scaled and edited.  (Have you ever scaled and printed a picture only to find strange lines running through it? Line-art won't do that.)  With line art and careful settings of your printer, you can get the crispest edges and best resolution possible from your printer every time, even when scaled.

Painting applications such as Photoshop or Paint create bitmapped images.  You paint the pixels at a resolution that you can select. When you print the image, the printer driver has to scale the pixels to the resolution of the printer.  Line art is not converted to pixels until it is printed, so it doesn't have this problem.  However, you can create excellent art with a paint application if you follow a few basic rules.
1.  Save your art as a TIF, Photoshop, PIC, or GIF file, never as a JPG.
2.  Work at 1:1 scale for the print size you want.  Zoom in to create the art the way you want.
3.  Set your page resolution to be the same as the printer you will be using.  If you must scale down your art, be sure that your artwork resolution remains an even multiple of your print resolution.  For instance, If you plan to print at 600 DPI, your artwork should be at 600, 1200, or 1800 DPI.
4.  For color photographs, print with resolutions of at least 244 DPI.  For all line art, print with resolution of at least 600 DPI.

If you are interested in jumping into this with both feet, are not planning to work with professional printers, and you might want to experiment with laser cutting some day, then I would recommend learning CorelDraw on a PC.  (The newer versions of CorelDraw are not available for the Macintosh.)  If you want the best applications for graphic arts and might want to work with professional shops, by far the most popular application among professional graphic artists is Adobe Illustrator run on a Macintosh.  You will also want Photoshop for certain things such as converting scanned (bitmapped art) into line art.

The cheapest, high quality solution is using an application such as Inkscape.  I haven't used it myself but I hear good things about it and it's free.  (Mac, Unix, or PC)
http://www.inkscape.org/

I hope this helps.

Mike

[NORCALLOGGER]

Marc & Mike,
Thanks for the indepth replys.
I have been trying to avoid the expense of the
elaborate programs but more importantly the learning curve time
involved.  I just want to knock out a few signs for the railroad
not learn a new trade.
I have a PC with VISTA so it is pretty well up to date.  I will look around in the OFFICE 2007 program some more, there should be something in that.  I have played around with the Paint program but have never had much luck understanding it. 
I will look at that INKSCAPE program and see what I can find.

Thnks for the help guys.
Rick Marty

[MrBrownstone]

Hey Rick,

The easiest way would be is to just print your background on the media (make sure you line things up so you are able to line it up again.) then print it again with the over-lay printing.

basically your going to print on the same media 2x (0 learning curve, only doing what you already know how to do just doing it twice)

Heh... I am not sure what kind of printer you have but it's worth a try.

Hope that helps.

Mike

[marc_reusser]

Mike,

If he has overlapping colors, printing 2x (overprinting will not really work) unless the top color is solid black. Inkjet inks are inherantly transparent...so the bottom color will tend to show through (actually the overlapping area will then turn a mixed color result of the two) The only small desktop printers that I have seen that you can osucessfully overprint with are the highly specialized ones used by some graphic design firms (I think Epson makes it)...and it prints with almost completly opaque and completely matte inks.


Marc

[MrBrownstone]

Hey marc,

OHhh I agree with you on the odds of him having a high-end printer were next to none. 

but I have seen some ppl pull it off... (getting it right by the 20th try  )

Also I have already seen you guy's around here do some amazing things with those kinds of Low-tech tools. 

heh... it was just an idea on the fly..

Mike

[NORCALLOGGER]

Hi All,
This is the kind of thing I have been talking about. 
This is a simple program in Microsoft Office that I have finally figured
out how to use.  It is basic but a start.


Thanks for your time
Rick Marty


PS
That sure is an odd way to add a picture.

[NORCALLOGGER]

Some of you may not be able to open the
docx link above so here is a link to a regular doc
document.
Thanks
Rick Marty

[MrBrownstone]

Rick

I would try just for ha ha's and print the yellow background first, (larger than the needed size, trim after)

Then remove the yellow background from your image and just print that graphic and the black text and outline on the already printed yellow background.

see where you stand after that experiment.

Mike

[NORCALLOGGER]

Hi Mike,
The "joe's Diner" sign is not something I am going to use it is just shown as an example of what I was trying to acomplish using the computer and printer. Some of the conversation above has brought out some great ideas but was getting a little to complex for this ol' country boy to follow.

I do understand what your talking about with the "double printing"  to give better/deeper color and if I can figure out how to that I will give it a try.
Thanks for the tip.
Rick Marty

[MrBrownstone]

Hello Rick,

Great I will be watching for your results...

I will try some things as well..

I would keep in mind (in pretty much any standard printer it is alot easier to line up a full sheet of paper twice)
could try taping the smaller vinyl sheet to the larger paper to help line things up.

anyway just some things to ponder..

Mike