Bits, Pieces, & Clutter

[Ken Hamilton]

That little mixer is going to be WAY-cool, Marc. The dried concrete and gear teeth look great.
How did you do the welded seam??

[Mr Potato Head]

Dumb question here, what do you thin your Mr. Surfacer with? And I know that there is a 500, 1000, and 1200 can you spray any of these without thinning? (Is there any advantage to using the spray cans, other than ease of clean up) and would I want to? Is Mr. Surface lacquer based, or is it other? If I want to use dissimilar paints must I use a clear coat first? Would that be varnish, do you have a preference?
Thanks inquiring dumb minds want to know; D
Gil
Mr Surfacer handicapped, among other things

[finescalerr]

A very clever and fine bit of modeling, Professor. It is a microcosmic epitome of what this site is about. -- Russ

[Philip Smith]

microcosmic epitome

yep.......now the drive gears

  amazing work Marc!

Philip

[RoughboyModelworks]

Very neat solution to making the gear on the mixer shell Marc...

Paul

[marc_reusser]

Thanks guys. Doing the gear in this manner was inpired by wathing all the stuff that Gordin Birrell and Ken, do with making styrene parts.

Ken,
Not proud of these seams....the first few came out to big and bulky. For expediency I used stretched sprue, that was step cut with a Misssion Models round head micro chisel, and the softened smoothed with liquid cement (http://www.finescalerr.com/smf/index.php?topic=5.0).......I wish I had used milliput for it, as it would probably have come out better. Sprue ususlly works, but last night it was not cooperating. ...lickily the bad stuff will be down from the viewrs POV, and hopefully just get lost in the rest of the scene/clutter.

MR

[marc_reusser]

Gill,

For my primer coats, I really prefer to use Mr. Surfacer in a can (no Prince Albert Jokes please )....It goes on beautifully and dries really tight. I know there are guys that use the stuff from a jar, thin it and then airbrush it...but I look into those jars, and the gooey appearance of the stuf...and then at my nice clean airbrush, and decide against it....why go through all that hassle if the can works equally as well (though it is a bit harer on/in tight small areas). BTW. if you have noticed I don't always really do a completely opaque coat of primer.....it often is still slightly translucent....I basically just try to use it to somewhat even out the material colors, and provide a surface that the paint will adhere to.

If you want to use the Mr. Surfacer in a jar, I suggest you thin it with Mr. Thinner or Mr. Color Thinner (no I'm not joking...that's what the stuff is called).

I do not know what the base is for Mr Surfacer....I don't read Japanese....but it is definitely seems to be some form of petroleum type product (though since it is available in the EU, I am not quite sure what type).

I personally do not use any barrier coats between dissimilar paints....I have not found the need....BUT....that said, when I do, I tend to shoot the oil based (like Floquil) as the lower/bottom coat, and then the Acrylic, Tamiya, Vallejo or Model Color as the top/upper layers. I have not done the reverse.....and I see/envision that there could be issues doing so (which a barrier layer would not help), and that is due the fact of differential shrinking and expansion of the paints.....paints like Floquil tend to dry really hard and ridgid, whereas acrylics tend to inherantly be more flexible....thus if you spray a hard paint over the flexible, you could easily end up with spider cracking, or "crackling".
My personal reason I often floquil as the bottom coat is merely because the colors I use/prefer (Roof Brown, or Oxide Red) are only made by Floquil. (no I do not like the acrylic version/shades of these from Polly-Scale...I actually quite dislike Polly-Scale paints).

I find that the disparate paints issue, and barrier coats is MUCH more critical in regards to your eventual weathering materials/approach...because this is where it can get messy and ruin yur paint work.


MR

[Mr Potato Head]

 tend to shoot the oil based (like Floquil) as the lower/bottom coat, and then the Acrylic, Tamiya, Vallejo or Model Color as the top/upper layers. I have not done the reverse.

So then Mr. Surfacer is compatible with Floquil? I thought that Floquil is lacquer based. I am confused a little, when you do your washes they are oil base over lacquer?  Sorry I am just trying to understand, being a all acrylic guy, I just want to make sure I don't screw up.
thanks
Gil

[chester]

Gil, Floquil is not lacquer based. I use turp for thinner/cleaner with it.
Marc, Just curious, for what reason do you not like the PolyScale paints?

[marc_reusser]

Gil,

I have had no problems with Floquil over Mr. Surfacer...I don't do use this combo often...and (at least for the mil. models, and non resin pieces) I have found that you can use the Floquil color AS the primer (though I suggest letting it cure for 5 days or so before spraying over it). Some of he mil guys have tried thinning the Tamiya acrylic paints with Tamiya Lacquer thinner (yellow cap bottle), and used it as the primer coat as well. In the end, the primer is really just there to provide an even base color, and a stable surface that the following layers can evenly and properly adhere to.

I generally do all my filters, washes, fading etc, using oil based paints. The rule is basically: oil based paints over acrylics....OR...if over oil based color layer, only after sealing with an acrylic barrier coat (ie satin or flat).

You can use Guache over oil based paints without a barrier coat, though you will need intemed. barrier coats if working with layers of guache, as it tends to reactivate).  You can use oils over Guache without a barrier coat...though you need to be carefull, and know what you are doing, as the oils will/can readily bleed and spread through the Guache (just like they can on a matte acrylic surface).

You can use Guache over acrylics too....but as always when working wet over acrylics you dont want to work the colors too wet for too long, as this will start to soften/affect the acrylic layer below.

There basically seem to be two camps in the Mil. models field re. clear coats over acrylics prior to weathering....those that do, and those that don't (and then of course both occasionally do or don't depending on the circumstance )...there is no absolute right...it comes down to personal preference, experience, what effects you are after, and what the specific application/condition requires.


NOTE: A lot of what happens to paints over eachother also depends on how you are spraying: how thick, how much thinner, what kind of thinner, how much dry time between coats, how much cure time between disparate paints, etc.. Most of the paint jobs I see on the RR forums tend to be applied WAY to thick and heavy, and in too few coats....it's as if they are applying a "paint condom".

NOTE #2: I don't give a rats-ass about what some people say....do not use alcohol, windshield wiper fluid, etc. to thin your paints...this might work fine if you are doing a shitty paint condom type job....but if you really want to get a nice clean, crisp, sharp finish, and you want to be be sure of what happens when applying multiple layers and disparate paints.....use the freaking mfr's thinner....you can use the other crap to clean the airbrush afterwards...but to mix the paint...use the proper thinner.  It's one less thing that can possibly go wrong. I don't understand why people whine about the "cost" of a specific thinner...it only takes a few drops, or eye dropper full, to mix into the paint needed for an entire model......how much can that possibly cost?!!!   What the hell are they needing gallons of thinner for?  (Yes, there are a select few guys that can pull of good consistent finishes with the alc. or wiper fluid......but they are the extremly rare minority.)


MR

[marc_reusser]

Marc, Just curious, for what reason do you not like the PolyScale paints?

Chester,

I find them too thick, both the carrier material and the actual pigment, I find them too inconsistent when trying to get a dead flat finish, and I feel that they give poor coverage when shot in thin coats, and they do not have the same ability/quality as Tamiya or Vallejo to really "suck down" onto the surface and around details. Lastly I think their color  range is pretty bad/mediocre.  They are pretty much just barely above craft paints in my book.

MR

[John McGuyer]

Gee, I didn't know that Mr. Surfacer wouldn't work in my airbrush, so I just put it in there and painted away. Since I didn't know, it worked just fine. Did run the air pressure about 5 psi higher than normal. Put Floquil right over the top no problem. Cleaned the gun with both lacquer thinner and that new biodegradable stuff.

John

[marc_reusser]

John,

Mr. Surfacer works fine in an airbrush.....I personally don't care for spraying via airbrush if I can avoid it, because I am too lazy to deal with thinning it properly, and then cleaning it out of the airbrush. ....especially so since I have about spray 6 or more unopened cans of Mr. surfacer 500, 1200, and Mr. Resin primer just sitting in my cabinet. 

MR.

[John McGuyer]

Marc,

My point was that I didn't thin it. I just ran it through a filter as I do all the paint in my airbrush and painted away.

John

[marc_reusser]

Nothing earth shattering.

It seems like it took forever (at least 4 or 5 evenings) to get this frame painted to where I am somewhat happy with it. (Some of the subtlety and finer surface values don't come through in the images)  That look of old steel with some dust and dirt, that has been sitting around a bit, is a real PIA...especially when there is nothing....no color or other material.... to play it off of.

The frame is the one from earlier in this thread. Base color was mixed using Tamiya "Hull Red", "Black", & "Yellow". Weathering was done using a mixture of Guache, MIG & CMK pigments, & Abt.502 oils.

For now I will call it done...but I may come back at a later date and ad some more detail, such as grease around the bearings, and possible some heavier "dust/dirt" in a few areas on the lower lip of the side sill, though that may have to wait till I decide on the final setting this will be in.






MR