P4NewStreet - modelling Birmingham (UK) in the 1980's - 1:76 scale

[chester]

Isn't 1/72 to 1/76 generally accepted as OO gauge scaling?

[jim s-w]

That's right.  OO gauge is a curious mix of 4mm to 1ft scale models but on HO scale track (16.5mm gauge). P4 uses the same scale but on accurate 18.83mm gauge track meaning you have to replace the wheels for scale ones and hand build all of the track.

[Ray Dunakin]

The platform and lighting look terrific, very authentic!

[finescalerr]

I like your photography as well as the modeling.

One thing I have never understood about the model railroad hobby: So many people seem to consider accuracy relatively unimportant, especially with respect to a model's gauge. O scale trains run on 5 scale foot gauge track, OO runs on HO track (to narrow), the idiots in 1:29 scale run on Gauge One track (too narrow), 1:24 scale narrow gauge runs on 45mm (+/- 1.75 inch) rather than 1.5 inch gauge track ... the list goes on.

What if we forced the guys -- particularly manufacturers -- who think gauge is unimportant to wear underwear or shoes a couple of sizes too small? Would that help them to understand the importance of gauge?

Russ

[Hauk]

One thing I have never understood about the model railroad hobby: So many people seem to consider accuracy relatively unimportant, especially with respect to a model's gauge. O scale trains run on 5 scale foot gauge track, OO runs on HO track (to narrow), the idiots in 1:29 scale run on Gauge One track (too narrow), 1:24 scale narrow gauge runs on 45mm (+/- 1.75 inch) rather than 1.5 inch gauge track ... the list goes on.

Russ

Russ, I really had to hold my tongue when I read the 2012 modellers annual. Those incredible Virginia & Truckee passenger cars where just perfect except for one thing. The trucks and wheels were built to regular O scale standards. I felt it was a crying shame not to use P48 standards for a project like that. It seems I was not alone...

[jim s-w]

One thing I have never understood about the model railroad hobby: So many people seem to consider accuracy relatively unimportant, especially with respect to a model's gauge. O scale trains run on 5 scale foot gauge track, OO runs on HO track (to narrow), the idiots in 1:29 scale run on Gauge One track (too narrow), 1:24 scale narrow gauge runs on 45mm (+/- 1.75 inch) rather than 1.5 inch gauge track ... the list goes on.

Thanks Russ

Certainly when modelling diesels and electrics conversion from 00 to P4 can be as simple as swapping the wheels for scale ones.  Ok you can use compensated or sprung suspension as the running will be better but it's not essential.  Steam locos are more difficult but as the wheels and motion are more visible the benefits are much greater with the scale wheels being obvious.  There is a third gauge in the UK called EM which uses 18.2mm gauge but closer to 00 standards for wheels.  Indeed you can just space the finer RTR wheels out which to me doesn't offer any visual improvement at all.



I find building track hugely enjoyable and would never contemplate doing it any other way.  Even if p4 were available off the shelf you cant beat the flow you get building track in situe.  If you need a doule slip curved a bit just build it that way, it's no more difficult!

The thing is from a track point of view handbuilt 00, EM and P4 are all the same effort, it's just that the first 2 are still wrong.  In fact sometimes p4 is easier as using scale tollerances you can just copy what's there, with some complex formations it's hard to get all the checkrails in even when working to scale!  Ultimately it can be quite hard to tell the difference in gauge on plain track as judging a gap is kind of vague.  However the big difference between P4 ang he others is the checkrail tollerances.  You can see in the picture above that the gap between checkrails and the running rails is less than the width if the rail head.  In 00 and EM. The gap is greater and this is very obvious if you know what you are looking at.  For this reason, despite the gauge difference, I sometimes struggle to tell the difference between well modelled 00 track and EM.

Jim

Ps, appologies if US track terminology is different.

[Hydrostat]

Jim,

I appreciate everything you said about building your own track. Especially in GB there seems to have been a special kind of niftily swinging, somewhat individual forming of switches' and tracks' geometry which forces you to forget custom made trackage at all. Not to forget what you mentioned about the gaps. I really enjoy looking at your switches and tracks (fantastic - as all of your modeling).

Volker

[jim s-w]

Thank you Volker

Hi all

Ever wondered where the ramps towards the western end of New Streets platforms go?



The story of what's under the city might be of interest

http://www.p4newstreet.com/category/workbench

Cheers

Jim

[Ray Dunakin]

Very interesting. I also liked the information about finishing photos.

[jim s-w]

One of the most common questions I get asked when I tell people I am going to model the shopping centre is 'What will we actually see?'  So far I have had to try to describe that the intention is to leave off the rear wall of Platform 12 to give the viewer the impression that they are standing on the platform.  With work complete on all of the canopies for board three I can now just show you what you will see if you ever come to see New Street at a show somewhere.


This is the view from just under the roof at the Wolverhampton end, looking into the station.


The view from the middle of the platforms looking towards the Wolverhampton end



A few signs of life!

Hopefully these views demonstrate why I felt I have to have the roof on as it just wouldn't be New Street without it.

[finescalerr]

That really makes a statement. -- Russ

[BKLN]

Very nice!
You are setting the bar higher and higher for the smaller scales.

Christian

[Malachi Constant]

Wow, indeed and "ditto" what they said!  I seem to remember some brightly colored molded plastic chairs (oversized, 1970's style) in one of the BR stations somewhere ... but it may have been the wrong station.  Great stuff!  Definitely gives the underground feel.  -- Dallas

[kathymillatt]

Hi Jim

What an amazing model!  The signal box looks just like the real thing. I worked a couple of years's ago in an office overlooking it.

My main thoughts of New Street is how dark it is (thankfully I'm a Moor Street girl at the moment but have mostly done Snow Hill or International).  You have really captured the dank grim atmosphere.

Are you going to model the ramp off New Street and the front entrance to Smallbrook Queensway?  What about people which are always a mare in the smaller sizes?

I hope to see it some day in person. Do let us know when it's getting its next public outing.

Kathy

[Ray Dunakin]

That looks so great. Really captures the dark, gritty, utilitarian feel of an underground station.