Finally getting down to business with sketchup

[finescalerr]

Each seems to have its good and bad qualities. In both cases, though, the resolution seems too low and it might take as long to clean up the parts as to have made styrene masters and cast them in resin! How about the company that does jewelry quality printing where the guy came onto the forum and posted photos? Too expensive? Still too rough? -- Russ

[Hauk]

Each seems to have its good and bad qualities. In both cases, though, the resolution seems too low and it might take as long to clean up the parts as to have made styrene masters and cast them in resin! How about the company that does jewelry quality printing where the guy came onto the forum and posted photos? Too expensive? Still too rough? -- Russ

It seems to me that I might just bite the bullet and get my masters printed by a service provider that uses the Viper printer from 3D systems.
Like  RJM (http://www.rjmrp.com/main/) that you are refering to.

The quality seems good enough, but a you suggest, quite expencive.

Have to think this through very thoroughly, a different approach might be just to print a few key hardware parts in brass or resin and use regular wood or styrene for the body.

-Håvard

[Chuck Doan]

I have a quote in at Fineline prototyping for the green Viper material. They don't do automated quoting. Still standing by....

[RoughboyModelworks]

Hauk I'm interested in the brass process. Your parts look pretty good in the photos though there are some surface issues as you poinu out. For my Heywood Brake Van project there are several metal components (journal boxes, couplers, truss rod braces, etc.) that I'd like to have produced from my CAD drawings, but the PAP solution won't work as the plastic wouldn't be robust enough for the finished components. I'm not planning on a big production run, so I'm not concerned about producing masters for a casting run, but would like to just have some metal parts "printed" for a couple of vans. May not be cost effective though and it may be worth having quantities cast as a modest income opportunity. As you can tell, I haven't given this a great deal of thought up to this point, been preoccupied with other issues, but it's something I'm going to have to deal with shortly.

Paul

[marc_reusser]

Hauk,

Very interesting to see these results. Thanks for going through the effort to produce them.

One thing I am thinking when looking at the PAP piece.  From the looks if it, I am assuming that it was printed vertical (IE, the side was staning upright in the drawing and thus the printer).  I nooticed on the test pieces that I did, that the vertical surfaces had more texture than horizontal top and bottom surfaces.  If my assumption on yuor set-up is correct, then you should be able to get far better and smoother results if your pieces were laid flat....that way  all the horizontal surfaces of the straps, board faces, and bolt faces should be pretty smooth. Yes, you would still have texture on the small edges of the boards, in the grooves, and on the sdes of the bolts, and straps, but these areas should be far less noticeable and easier/less area to clean-up.   

I may be all wrong in my assumption.....and it's only based on my limited experience/results.


Marc

[Hauk]

I have a quote in at Fineline prototyping for the green Viper material. They don't do automated quoting. Still standing by....

Check the link to a thread on 3D printing on a British forum. Towards the end of the page you will find an image of a very attractive green part printed by Fineline.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/8147-3d-printing-class-25-parts/page__st__50

By the way, £ 112 is around US$ 177,-...

Regards, Haavard

[davej]

I have just had a quote from the UK agent for a part 10x8x8mm using the 'green' Fineline process - it was GBP 226.03. Ridiculous.

[Chuck Doan]

I would luv to have my stuff done in that green goo, but it sounds like it requires too much green for now. Unless Unc's cats can help me out. Anyway, sanding is good exercise, right?

I ordered all my gas pump parts from Printa Part for 75 bucks which included some expediting. Should be in by Friday.

[marc_reusser]

Havard,

Great thread on RP and the green stuff....it looks beautiful, but as Chuck said...ouch!....especially for just one-off pieces. Would hate to screw up painting a $200 1/35 scale welding tank or lamp shade.

Hopefully cost will become more accessible in the next couple of years.

MR

[finescalerr]

Do you suppose they charge so much because it takes more time to render a piece to that resolution, because they paid through the nose for hardware, or simply because they can? The cost really seems outrageous. -- Russ

[davej]

Probably a combination of all three. I am sure time is a key factor as they are printing in 0.025mm layers.

[Hauk]

I would luv to have my stuff done in that green goo, but it sounds like it requires too much green for now. Unless Unc's cats can help me out. Anyway, sanding is good exercise, right?

I ordered all my gas pump parts from Printa Part for 75 bucks which included some expediting. Should be in by Friday.

Since Fineline Prototyping is the owner of PAP, maybe it is part of their business plan to steer the hobbyist towards PAP by charging so much for the high resolution stuff that only proffesional customers will be interested.

Have anyone gotten quotes both from Fineline Prototyping and RJMRP (http://www.rjmrp.com/main/) for the same parts? They both us the same type of printers, 3D Systems Vipers.

-Håvard H

[Hauk]

Hauk I'm interested in the brass process. Your parts look pretty good in the photos though there are some surface issues as you poinu out. For my Heywood Brake Van project there are several metal components (journal boxes, couplers, truss rod braces, etc.) that I'd like to have produced from my CAD drawings, but the PAP solution won't work as the plastic wouldn't be robust enough for the finished components. I'm not planning on a big production run, so I'm not concerned about producing masters for a casting run, but would like to just have some metal parts "printed" for a couple of vans. May not be cost effective though and it may be worth having quantities cast as a modest income opportunity. As you can tell, I haven't given this a great deal of thought up to this point, been preoccupied with other issues, but it's something I'm going to have to deal with shortly.

Paul

I think you in fact could use PAP for brass parts. On their website they claim that their parts can be burnt out,  a neccesity for the lost wax casting process.  As you probably know, the LW-casting process usually goes something like this:

1. Make a master in a stable material, preferably metal. 
2. Make a rubber mould from the master
3. Cast a wax part  in the rubbermould Casters usually make several wax patterns and assemble them into a casting "three".
4. Cover the wax part (or an  PAP-part) with plaster.
5. Burn out the wax part in a special oven.
6. Fill the void in plaster with molten brass.
7. Smash the plaster
8.Go back to step 3 and repeat as many times as neccesary.

With a PAP part you start at point 4. If you need more than one part, you use the first brass as a master for a rubber mould and restart the process.

Remember that you have to take shrinkage into account two times if you use your brass part as a master.
From master to brass part you will have shrinkage of around 3%.

If you just want a single brass part, why not contact a local jeweller and ask if he can convert a PAP part into brass or another suitable metal?

-Haavard

[Hauk]

Another testpart has arrived from PAP, and it looks far better than the last one.
I think this is both due both to better control over the geometry of the SU part, and to Marc´s suggestion that I should make sure that PAP printed the part  flat.







In the extreme closeups it is easy to see that the part is by no means perfect, but I am planning to run a string of these cars on a layout some day, and without magnifying glasses I feel the quality might be good enough.

And the hassle-free dealings with PAP is a great bonus!

-Haavard

[JohnP]

My dealings with PAP were very easy also. I am planning on trying a few more items. I would like to see how rivets look both horizontally and vertically in 1:48.

If you look closely at my castings from the Phoenix bridge column, the striations are a bit visible in areas I couldn't sand or scrape. But they will be lost in the final product. So I am accepting of the results and value. Like Haarvard, you make your choices.

The green high-res part on the above forum is beautiful. Sure I would love to have everything mastered with that machine. But I am wondering how the bloke with the loco cabs is ever going to smooth them out.

John